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Is it time to ask UKPN to consider if HVDC works better in future networks ?

I have been wondering about the big line losses that are necessary in HV transmission systems , HVDC can nearly halve these to 4% but all the new renewable technology of generation and of storage is mostly DC . From the interconnector its all AC cant really change that , but if the electric car becomes reality then all the chargers will be converting DC to AC (in some quite high flows of electricity from low to full of some batteries) , so we are perhaps saying that the electric car will bring more line losses , it might not be that bigger deal, but if we electrolyse water to Hydrogen and Oxygen then the conversion losses from AC to DC will add up , so it has to be better to just transmit in DC , if we could generate in DC and I think we have brushless three phase generators now then we generate and transmit efficiently to the new big users of electricity . In the USA we see generation plant to city interconnector , I don't think they use a balancing grid , as cities are so far apart . I know any design has its problems but with the new uses of electricity any generation system will have to match (or think about the new denands) , its perfrectly possible to have designed and balanced generator to interconnector supply , but a shared transmission grid obviously allows you to arrange supply generator and demands in a different way .

One use I thought about is for a village to say have a battery and the line to it may only charge the battery once a week as DD line to DC battery and that electricity that is then spare can be used to say make Hydrogen ? It could give a completely different and more efficienct system ? Not really worked much on HV systems , but I can sort see a sketch of how it could work as a network . If only a short distance to a big demand then might as well use AC , but a 1000mw supply to an interconnector losing 7% over its life time is a lot .
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  • Yes I agree the problem of lack of transformability is most cited obstacle , but my understanding came from an article on a big hydro project in china where siemens had built a 100kv HVDC system and it gave considerable savings , Most hydro I think generates in DC as does solar and wind so we are already losing some inversion losses , which I haven't seen any decent papers on for the UK although siemens has made a recent DC system for a wind array and that has worked really well in electrical efficiency improvement, The actual collection points for cables on DC wind arrays/cables has a device for "cleaning" all the mixed outputs into one. The efficiency is in the transmission itself , but looking to the future all battery and water electrolysis systems use DC and will be using a lot of DC , in some models if we make of Hydrogen , more than actual demands we measure at the moment , so if your taking about sending large amounts of power to different places in the country and you also have large regular battery use demands , you need a HVDC transmission system  , to the points off distribution/interconnector and then convert to AC . Large inverters have been developed to do this. Actually generating in DC is difficult , the gensets are usually larger and heavier than AC, and most electrical engineers give up on it , but I think it can be done if you use say a 6 or 12 pole genset , brushless 3 phase DC has already been done by a clever bit of shunt wiring , but not at say 500MW as everyone is stuck on AC for simplicity. The efficiency of HVDC is proven in transmission losses , the transforming or up stepping to HVDC from DC generators is not quite perfected , and I myself don't fully understand the equipment that is used , recently there was some talk of an idea by Nikoli Tesla on a transformer , which I think was called a Farday transformer, but no technical efficiencies were ever shown or proven. Once we have a large output DC generator it all fits together much better ,then I have asked GE about it , but they are a bit shy about discussing technology , but they are looking at HVDC transmission .
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  • Yes I agree the problem of lack of transformability is most cited obstacle , but my understanding came from an article on a big hydro project in china where siemens had built a 100kv HVDC system and it gave considerable savings , Most hydro I think generates in DC as does solar and wind so we are already losing some inversion losses , which I haven't seen any decent papers on for the UK although siemens has made a recent DC system for a wind array and that has worked really well in electrical efficiency improvement, The actual collection points for cables on DC wind arrays/cables has a device for "cleaning" all the mixed outputs into one. The efficiency is in the transmission itself , but looking to the future all battery and water electrolysis systems use DC and will be using a lot of DC , in some models if we make of Hydrogen , more than actual demands we measure at the moment , so if your taking about sending large amounts of power to different places in the country and you also have large regular battery use demands , you need a HVDC transmission system  , to the points off distribution/interconnector and then convert to AC . Large inverters have been developed to do this. Actually generating in DC is difficult , the gensets are usually larger and heavier than AC, and most electrical engineers give up on it , but I think it can be done if you use say a 6 or 12 pole genset , brushless 3 phase DC has already been done by a clever bit of shunt wiring , but not at say 500MW as everyone is stuck on AC for simplicity. The efficiency of HVDC is proven in transmission losses , the transforming or up stepping to HVDC from DC generators is not quite perfected , and I myself don't fully understand the equipment that is used , recently there was some talk of an idea by Nikoli Tesla on a transformer , which I think was called a Farday transformer, but no technical efficiencies were ever shown or proven. Once we have a large output DC generator it all fits together much better ,then I have asked GE about it , but they are a bit shy about discussing technology , but they are looking at HVDC transmission .
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