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We need your help to tackle the transport challenge!
Former Community Member
Our aim is not to “drain the ocean” in a few months but to add a voice of engineering insight to the debate, demolish potential myths and legends and suggest some sensible ways forward. We don’t expect to achieve pinpoint accuracy in our investigation, but we can be honest about that. We want to establish some genuine truths and point to where more work or funding should be focussed. We need more information and guidance to existing reliable reports and research on carbon in materials mining and manufacture, infrastructure provision, renewal and maintenance, and end of life recycling. Please share your thoughts by commenting below.
Thank you for opening up the discussion about this issue to this community and welcome to the forum! I hope that you will find the input of the community on the whole helpful, informative and supportive.
Just before that, I would like to join Adam Thirkill in pointing out that Transport & Environment are well ahead with this kind of analysis and would encourage you to look at what they, and their network of partners across Europe, have been working on for many years to help you achieve your goals with your own project.
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Why?
This piece did not make it clear why you are undertaking this work. Why are you undertaking this work?
It suggests what you wish to try to do, what you hope the deliverables will be and how you intend to try to get there, but not why you are doing it.
My belief is that being as clear and transparent about your motivations (what do you believe) as possible is vital to inspire a community into constructive (altruistic) action, and that this is missing from your writing at the moment.
If I have misunderstood your writing, then I apologise that I did not understand what you were saying and humbly request a clarification.
_______________________
Fact-checking
Secondly, I regret to inform you that I believe you appear to have been misled, even as you get started on this topic. I was alarmed enough when I saw it, that I felt I must take some time to try to help or to understand whether I have been misled instead.
I would be glad to come to an understanding about this matter with you. I am sure you expect nothing less from IET members that to hold yourselves and each other to the highest professional standards and you will not take it personally that I am attempting to do the same.
"Research in Europe suggests that the carbon embedded in mining raw materials, manufacturing and transporting a new battery for say an electric SUV is so large that it would have to run upwards of 120,000 miles on 100% green electricity before its lifetime carbon footprint was less than a new petrol version of the same vehicle!"
As a scientist, I feel compelled to request you make clear your sources for this claim. I am willing to believe you have high quality, transparent sources for this claim, which is why I feel it is acceptable to politely ask to see them.
My fear is that you have seen subsequent reporting of a debunked, PR activity with poor transparency as to their "why" for commissioning the extensive work put into this information campaign. As an alternative point of view to your sources, I implore you to take a few minutes to read the words of Michael Liebreich of Bloomberg New Energy Finance and see both sides of the coin. I believe I can trust in his appraisal of the detailed technical analysis because he holds a first class degree in Engineering from the University of Cambridge and has spent much of his career looking into these issues.
I am trying to help because I believe that sensible use of resources now if crucial to achieving decarbonisation goals, and the more scientific consensus can be built the greater our chances of minimising the destabilisation of Earth's life support systems.
Life creates conditions conducive to life. Shall we all try and help engineering and technology do the same?
Thank you very much for your time and the work of you and your colleagues.
Keep safe and have a nice day!
Joe
_______________________
P.S. In this spirit of honesty, I wish to make it clear that I am British engineer, trained in the UK. I work as professional research and development engineer for a world-leading developer of hydrogen fuel cells, based outside the UK. Despite this, my view is that renewable hydrogen technology is not a prudent technology for the UK to choose to decarbonise transport outside of shipping and aviation. This may appear counter-intuitive but I will try to be honest and impartial about the strengths and weaknesses of the technology I develop, as well as I can.
_______________________
P.S.S. I wish to add that I believe it is very important to assess the risks of potential 'bait-and-switch' strategies when evaluating proposals for transportation systems based on hydrogen, or more generally "e-fuels" or "biofuels", because the potential for these strategies jeopardise our chances of achieving our (legislated) decarbonisation requirements. If you would like more information or to have a discussion about this, you need only ask.
Thank you for opening up the discussion about this issue to this community and welcome to the forum! I hope that you will find the input of the community on the whole helpful, informative and supportive.
Just before that, I would like to join Adam Thirkill in pointing out that Transport & Environment are well ahead with this kind of analysis and would encourage you to look at what they, and their network of partners across Europe, have been working on for many years to help you achieve your goals with your own project.
_______________________
Why?
This piece did not make it clear why you are undertaking this work. Why are you undertaking this work?
It suggests what you wish to try to do, what you hope the deliverables will be and how you intend to try to get there, but not why you are doing it.
My belief is that being as clear and transparent about your motivations (what do you believe) as possible is vital to inspire a community into constructive (altruistic) action, and that this is missing from your writing at the moment.
If I have misunderstood your writing, then I apologise that I did not understand what you were saying and humbly request a clarification.
_______________________
Fact-checking
Secondly, I regret to inform you that I believe you appear to have been misled, even as you get started on this topic. I was alarmed enough when I saw it, that I felt I must take some time to try to help or to understand whether I have been misled instead.
I would be glad to come to an understanding about this matter with you. I am sure you expect nothing less from IET members that to hold yourselves and each other to the highest professional standards and you will not take it personally that I am attempting to do the same.
"Research in Europe suggests that the carbon embedded in mining raw materials, manufacturing and transporting a new battery for say an electric SUV is so large that it would have to run upwards of 120,000 miles on 100% green electricity before its lifetime carbon footprint was less than a new petrol version of the same vehicle!"
As a scientist, I feel compelled to request you make clear your sources for this claim. I am willing to believe you have high quality, transparent sources for this claim, which is why I feel it is acceptable to politely ask to see them.
My fear is that you have seen subsequent reporting of a debunked, PR activity with poor transparency as to their "why" for commissioning the extensive work put into this information campaign. As an alternative point of view to your sources, I implore you to take a few minutes to read the words of Michael Liebreich of Bloomberg New Energy Finance and see both sides of the coin. I believe I can trust in his appraisal of the detailed technical analysis because he holds a first class degree in Engineering from the University of Cambridge and has spent much of his career looking into these issues.
I am trying to help because I believe that sensible use of resources now if crucial to achieving decarbonisation goals, and the more scientific consensus can be built the greater our chances of minimising the destabilisation of Earth's life support systems.
Life creates conditions conducive to life. Shall we all try and help engineering and technology do the same?
Thank you very much for your time and the work of you and your colleagues.
Keep safe and have a nice day!
Joe
_______________________
P.S. In this spirit of honesty, I wish to make it clear that I am British engineer, trained in the UK. I work as professional research and development engineer for a world-leading developer of hydrogen fuel cells, based outside the UK. Despite this, my view is that renewable hydrogen technology is not a prudent technology for the UK to choose to decarbonise transport outside of shipping and aviation. This may appear counter-intuitive but I will try to be honest and impartial about the strengths and weaknesses of the technology I develop, as well as I can.
_______________________
P.S.S. I wish to add that I believe it is very important to assess the risks of potential 'bait-and-switch' strategies when evaluating proposals for transportation systems based on hydrogen, or more generally "e-fuels" or "biofuels", because the potential for these strategies jeopardise our chances of achieving our (legislated) decarbonisation requirements. If you would like more information or to have a discussion about this, you need only ask.
