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Recognition distance learning HND + BEng

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
Dear, 


I'm a 26 y.o guy from the Netherlands. I'm currently working as a maintenance technician. Unfortunately without any diploma I can't evolve to a manager position. While looking online, I found a distance learning HND program in mechanical engineering (at Teesside University). It looks like it's equivalent to a 2 year university program and with 2 additional study years, I could obtain a BEng Top-up degree (distance learning Portsmouth university).


But I couldn't find any accreditation for those programs, so I was wondering what's their value with employers? 

As I'm not used to this accreditation system: how important is an accreditation ?

I understand that all BEng are honours degree, does this mean that I could follow a Msc degree after and get a Ceng accreditation? 


Last but not least, my girlfriend is Canadian, and who knows we might go live there one day. I found an old topic that Open University (online) degrees were not recognized because it wasn't on the Engineering Council's list. https://communities.theiet.org/discussions/viewtopic/795/13598

Did that change or it might be still a problem if we ever move over there? 


Thank you! 

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    Andy,

    I found myself liking, the first two paragraphs, but perhaps a little less so the last.

    However, one word of caution, an HND is not the same as the first 1 to 2 years of a degree. An HND is a vocational course ("this is how to do the stuff we already know about"), a degree is an academic course ("this is how to think about solving a problem we haven't even thought of yet"). Topping up an HND is hard work, as mentioned I've seen many do it, in particular typically a lot of additional maths study may be required. It can still be a really good thing to do, just be prepared for that change in direction.   

    I was involved in the early 2000s, working with an FE College and University partner in migrating a 4-year training programme from an HND outcome to a Bachelors Degree in the same timescale. This involved creating a “Foundation Degree” with substantially the same content as the HND, which allowed seamless progression into the final degree year.

    Universities have been keen historically keen to emphasise, that the mathematics content of their degrees was “higher” than a HND, following the logic that you describe. So, an HND graduate was often denied access to the final year of a degree, or required to undertake some “articulation”, like a special mathematics “top up” course.

    When it came to accreditation under Engineering Council supervision, this same logic applied with maths being the main differentiator between IEng and “part CEng” (subject to “further learning”) accredited Bachelors Degrees.     

         
    This isn’t a completely up to date article, but it does explore the issues, although not in an engineering context. https:/wonkhe.com/blogs/the-downfall-of-foundation-degrees/      

    “Vocational versus Academic” is close to the heart of many debates here and elsewhere about “Engineers”. With “more academic” courses covered by the Washington Accord and “more vocational” by The Sydney Accord. As you observed, most employers have better things to do than worry about this, but it matters to regulators and other bureaucrats who influence academia and some employers.

    In response to the original question, both Teesside and Portsmouth are Universities drawn from a more “vocational tradition” (Polytechnic) and influenced by strong links with employers in their areas (either geographic or specialist interest). I have seen many engineers gain UK registration (CEng/IEng) using their degrees as evidence.  The Open University operates differently, but is regulated by the UK government as the “equal” of other universities.  One choice of module pathway was accredited at one time, but I’m not up to date.   

    If the option is readily available, a CEng accredited degree reduces the risk of any potential “problems” later, if you want CEng in the UK or state registered professional engineer elsewhere. My understanding is that Canada uses the distinction “Engineer” and “Technologist” based on the type of degree held.          

Reply
  • 0
    Andy,

    I found myself liking, the first two paragraphs, but perhaps a little less so the last.

    However, one word of caution, an HND is not the same as the first 1 to 2 years of a degree. An HND is a vocational course ("this is how to do the stuff we already know about"), a degree is an academic course ("this is how to think about solving a problem we haven't even thought of yet"). Topping up an HND is hard work, as mentioned I've seen many do it, in particular typically a lot of additional maths study may be required. It can still be a really good thing to do, just be prepared for that change in direction.   

    I was involved in the early 2000s, working with an FE College and University partner in migrating a 4-year training programme from an HND outcome to a Bachelors Degree in the same timescale. This involved creating a “Foundation Degree” with substantially the same content as the HND, which allowed seamless progression into the final degree year.

    Universities have been keen historically keen to emphasise, that the mathematics content of their degrees was “higher” than a HND, following the logic that you describe. So, an HND graduate was often denied access to the final year of a degree, or required to undertake some “articulation”, like a special mathematics “top up” course.

    When it came to accreditation under Engineering Council supervision, this same logic applied with maths being the main differentiator between IEng and “part CEng” (subject to “further learning”) accredited Bachelors Degrees.     

         
    This isn’t a completely up to date article, but it does explore the issues, although not in an engineering context. https:/wonkhe.com/blogs/the-downfall-of-foundation-degrees/      

    “Vocational versus Academic” is close to the heart of many debates here and elsewhere about “Engineers”. With “more academic” courses covered by the Washington Accord and “more vocational” by The Sydney Accord. As you observed, most employers have better things to do than worry about this, but it matters to regulators and other bureaucrats who influence academia and some employers.

    In response to the original question, both Teesside and Portsmouth are Universities drawn from a more “vocational tradition” (Polytechnic) and influenced by strong links with employers in their areas (either geographic or specialist interest). I have seen many engineers gain UK registration (CEng/IEng) using their degrees as evidence.  The Open University operates differently, but is regulated by the UK government as the “equal” of other universities.  One choice of module pathway was accredited at one time, but I’m not up to date.   

    If the option is readily available, a CEng accredited degree reduces the risk of any potential “problems” later, if you want CEng in the UK or state registered professional engineer elsewhere. My understanding is that Canada uses the distinction “Engineer” and “Technologist” based on the type of degree held.          

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