Women as decoration?

Hi Amber ,

I am very glad that you started such topic . As a woman engineer 50+ old I do feel uncomfortable being surrounded on a number of technical occasions by very young women dressed rather "peculiarly" not quite up to occasions . Thinking similarly as you "That's strange - who are they , and what they do in those outfits and what they have to do in particular technical occasions?" I am not saying that attendees of any events should be restricted to a code how to dress , but should be guided by common sense . I must say that in a few occasions what I voiced my opinion I met with some comments implying that I feel angry because of their age (very young) and beauty...

But I still feel that their presence has nothing to do with engineering and encouragement  for women to become ​ engineers.

I very much support your suggestions to include our feelings in the feedback questionnaires .

Regards

Grazyna

Hi both,


first of all, Amber, the experience you described sounds awful. I know that I would be very angry in that situation, obviously not at those girls, but at the organisers who thought that eye candy is still appropriate in engineering events.


Generally, I agree with you, Grazyna, too. However, it is important to distinguish and clarify that we support everyone to be dressed however they want without particulary adhering to 'common sense'. This could have dangerous extensions, as common sense cannot be well defined. More specifically, we need to stress that we support they right of everyone, woman or man, to be dressed however they want, AS LONG AS, it is their choice.

So, let's say that these three women in Amber's event might have wanted to dress like this anyway as visitors. That would be fine. However, they would not have gotten the specific job if they were not happy to wear such outfits. Which is exactly why the organisers were so much on the wrong here.


In conclusion, what I am really trying to say is that in discussions where people blame us for being jealous (or other..), it will make things easier when we explain the 'as long as it is their choice' part.


with friendly regards,

Antonia

Annother potential issue regarding women being employed as decoration is the possibility of those women engineers who attend engineering shows to find design solutions etc. not being taken serously as engineers by men who may perhaps have mistaken them as more decoration!!

The organisers obviously think “here is our budget; we’ll spend this much on bar staff, this much on signs & bunting, this much on tables, chairs, tablecloths etc. and this much on young women to wear low cut outfits and smile at people”. If organisers have money to spare on these things, wouldn’t it be better to put the surplus into STEM activities for young people or some other charitable cause?


And who is making this decision? Whilst I’m sure that there are some men that no doubt enjoy the addition of young women smiling at them, would any of them really notice or care if these particular women weren’t there? Would they think “What a dreadful conference! Not one scantily clad babe walking around! That’s the last time I’m ever going to THAT event!” Perhaps having these women there in this capacity is as much a disservice to men as it is to women?


Grazyna - I feel for you - 50 years of putting up with this! And when voicing the opinion that this isn't appropriate, why is the conversation always turned around to make it YOUR problem? "Oh, she's jealous", rather than "Oh, yeah - good point - what ARE these models doing here?" And unless you want a career as a model, rather than an engineer, what have you to be jealous of?! Not all men rate themselves on how attractive they are, so why do they assume that we women do? Age and beauty are obviously factors for those selecting models for these jobs, but why-oh-why does a construction event need models?! You don't get engineers strutting up and down a catwalk, so why have models gadding about at a construction show?


Antonia – Yes, choice is important, but I feel that the addition of these women in these outfits in this capacity restricts the choices of women attending in a professional capacity to wear what they want. If women are visibly employed for the sole purpose of wearing short skirts and being ogled by men, then if a woman attends who just happens to be wearing a short skirt, some men might assume that she also wants to be ogled too. If men essentially have permission to ogle some women then, as Grace points out, it then makes it harder for the other women there to be taken seriously and treated with respect and professionalism. The woman may feel more inclined to restrict her future wardrobe choices for fear of being treated a certain way or because she doesn’t want the hassle or lecherous looks from her peers.


Sarah – Those poor women! Making women dress in skimpy outfits at an outdoor event is just unkind! If you are advising the attendees to wear jackets and boots, WHY would you make anyone stand there freezing their bits off?! (or subject to the sunburn that goes along with not wearing very much at an outdoor event!)


When will women be more visible at STEM events as speakers in the programme or exhibitors on the stands, rather than as teenagers in twee costumes that have nothing to do with engineering?


Thanks to all for your responses so far 

Hi All ,

from my years of experience as a woman engineer  involved in research , industry and academia in Poland (past) and England (since 1980) I can say that the position of woman engineer in Poland is much higher appreciated than in England . It is why not many young women entering the engineering education . It is why we ,women engineers , carry on with this discussion : Women as decoration?  With bigger  % of women engineers we would not need

to discuss such a topic .

Thanks

Grazyna

Exactly: those organisers did not give the choice to their employees to dress however they want. They employeed them with the condition that they had to wear specific outfits.


However, we also have to note the fact that some men feel entitled to 'ogle' women. It shouldn't matter how they are dressed. This is a whole other matter, and it should be changed through society. I know that I have had inappropriate comments in conferences and I wasn't dressed in a provoking way.