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Women: Like men, only cheaper

Amber Thomas
Hurray! It’s equal pay day! The day when men and women are finally paid the same… Oh, wait – no, it doesn’t mean that at all. Equal Pay Day actually refers to the day of the year when women stop earning, compared to men.


The current pay gap between men and women in the UK is 13.9%, which means that this year, Equal Pay day falls on November 10th. This is an improvement on last year (November 9th), but is progress being made quickly enough? There are 51 days left of the year – if we only improve one day a year, most people reading this are more likely to see retirement before they see wage parity!


Women are increasingly well educated, so why isn’t this translating into higher pay? In the UK, the aggregate (full and part time) gender pay gap for graduates ten years after graduation is 23% [1] Why do you think this is?


The gender pay gap also varies by occupation and ranges from 3.9% for sales (a decrease) and customer service, to 25.1% (an increase) for skilled trade occupations in April 2015 [2] (such as electricians, plumbers, carpenters, welders, technicians, engineers etc. - you know, those jobs we are trying to get more women into...).


Why, when the 1970 Equal Pay Act has been around for nearly 50 years is there still such discrepancy?


The Government is bringing in mandatory pay transparency rules, which mean that all companies with more than 250 employees will be required to disclose how much they are paying in salaries and bonuses to their male and female staff. There is a further plan for a league table to be produced which will rank the worst offenders. This league table is scheduled for 2018. Come on, Businesses! You’ve got 2 years to sort out these gaps before you are named and shamed!


In the meantime, if you are being paid less than a man and wish to dispute it, you are able to bring your employer to a tribunal – if, that is, you have £1,200 for the upfront fees (brought in by the 2013 Coalition government). Unfortunately, the introduction of upfront fees is likely to deter women from seeking justice over gender wage imbalances, as (being lower paid) they are less likely to have the money to afford the case! [3]


And spare a thought for those in other countries – the worst gender gaps around the world last year were found in South Korea (where women earn 36.6% less than men), Estonia and Japan (26.6%), Israel (21.8%), and the Netherlands (20.5%). The narrowest gap was found in New Zealand, where women earned 5.6% less than men. This was followed by Belgium (5.9%), Luxembourg (6.5%), Denmark (6.8%) and Norway (7%). [4]


Should we talk to our colleagues about how much we/they earn? Many people are taught that it is perhaps impolite to discuss money, but perhaps the not-knowing is compounding the problem? Has anyone here discussed salaries with their colleagues, and if so, did you find that there was a gap? How did you approach the subject?


Aside from mandatory wage lists, are there any other policies or conversations that could be had to reduce and (hopefully) eliminate the pay differences?

Previous UK Equal pay days:
  • 2016:  10th November

  • 2015: 9th November

  • 2014: 4th November

  • 2013: 7th November

​--- --- ---



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  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Hi Amber,

    Thanks for taking the time to respond! 


    There are plenty of men that would also prefer to stay at home as well, and there's nothing wrong with that. The way things are for me and my partner mean we share all the responsibilities, including looking after the little one (which I love). But, if money wasn't an issue my partner said that she would prefer that I go out to work while she looks after the house and our daughter. We were talking about it over the weekend and she said that maybe she's old fashioned. But I think people would be surprised at how many women still have this preference, although maybe for various reasons. I think these "old fashioned" women could be reluctant to speak out because they fear they will be criticised by other women, but there are a number of studies that show that the majority of women would prefer to stay at home and look after the kids, if they could. If money wasn't as much of an issue most women wouldn't want to put their children in childcare so they could go back to work, most of them would actually want to look after their own children, and if this doesn’t change then a gender pay gap may be inevitable. I earn a bit more than my partner but she doesn’t really see it as an issue because my money isn’t “my money”, it’s for the household, and if I have more in my pension pot then it will be for both of us. And it’s not a disempowering thing for her to rely more on me financially, I rely on her for other things as well.


    But obviously we need to make sure that things are fair for the many women that do want to work. The cost of childcare etc. is a problem. It’s way too expensive! It's ironic that politicians from all sides tend to emphasise the importance of the family etc. yet we live in a society that is becoming increasingly more difficult for the average family to get by without either both parents working, or incurring extortionate child care costs.


    When I said about men asking for more money I meant at the interview stage as well. Not just pay increases, but initial pay. The theory is that men could be asking for more money from the start. If women aren't asking for as much money it kind of is up to them to start doing this, at least once they’re aware of it as an issue. If you don't ask you don't get! It's nothing to do with gender as it goes for men as well. How many employers will offer anyone more than what they are asking for? Especially in this climate. As a man I can say I've never once been offered more than I've said I was expecting, in fact it's almost always less because that's how negotiations tend to work. Your example of men not being told it's "their fault" for workplace accidents isn't entirely true. It's not as blunt as saying "well it's your fault", and I'm not suggesting that's how people should approach women with regards to asking for more money either. But putting health and safety legislation in place includes things like health and safety training, where people are told what they should/shouldn't do, and the purpose of this is so the employers can't be held liable if someone has been trained and not followed the correct guidance. It would be really insensitive to say to a grieving family "well it was their fault", which is probably why this doesn’t happen. But if they were shown what not to do and they did it anyway, then it is their fault. That's the whole point.


    I'm not saying there aren't cases where women are illegitimately being paid less. But none of the studies so far clearly indicate that women are being offered less than men purely because they are women, on a systemic level. They may be offered less in some cases but there could be a number of reasons for this. The majority of HR managers are women. I don’t know exactly how it works but I find it really hard to believe that so many companies could be illegitimately paying women less without it being picked up. I’m not saying it’s definitely not the case, so it will be interesting to see what the latest studies reveal. Hopefully they pay more attention to these other factors than the previous studies.


    My main issue with the "gender pay gap" is that there's this automatic assumption that it's all about gender discrimination, but it seems far more complicated than that. There are different approaches to equality. One can be for society to accommodate people to do things that they would otherwise not be able or expected to do, but there's also equality in terms of equally valuing the different roles we play. I think both are important, but in most of the discussions and articles I'm seeing it tends to be mostly the former that people are trying to achieve. I think that as well as women having more freedom to work if they want to, people should also value stay at home parents more than they currently do. There's always this notion that it's a lesser thing to be a "stay at home" parent, but I can say from my own experience that days with my daughter can be much harder work than days in the office! If the family is structured in a way that will adequately support the next generation of workers (whether it's the father or mother that decides to stay at home) then it's good for society as well. So it’s a far more important role than a lot of people make out.

    I know men are currently playing a more active role in parenting, myself included, and I think it’s a great thing. But a part of me also acknowledges that (in general) women are naturally inclined to play the more active role, especially in the earlier stages. So I’m not so sure that it’s a matter of women feeling forced into this role as much as it’s a matter of women naturally wanting to spend more time with their children, but needing to work instead. At least that’s what the studies indicate. Either way the government clearly needs to be more accommodating, because the way things are going seems to be having an increasingly negative impact on the family.
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  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Hi Amber,

    Thanks for taking the time to respond! 


    There are plenty of men that would also prefer to stay at home as well, and there's nothing wrong with that. The way things are for me and my partner mean we share all the responsibilities, including looking after the little one (which I love). But, if money wasn't an issue my partner said that she would prefer that I go out to work while she looks after the house and our daughter. We were talking about it over the weekend and she said that maybe she's old fashioned. But I think people would be surprised at how many women still have this preference, although maybe for various reasons. I think these "old fashioned" women could be reluctant to speak out because they fear they will be criticised by other women, but there are a number of studies that show that the majority of women would prefer to stay at home and look after the kids, if they could. If money wasn't as much of an issue most women wouldn't want to put their children in childcare so they could go back to work, most of them would actually want to look after their own children, and if this doesn’t change then a gender pay gap may be inevitable. I earn a bit more than my partner but she doesn’t really see it as an issue because my money isn’t “my money”, it’s for the household, and if I have more in my pension pot then it will be for both of us. And it’s not a disempowering thing for her to rely more on me financially, I rely on her for other things as well.


    But obviously we need to make sure that things are fair for the many women that do want to work. The cost of childcare etc. is a problem. It’s way too expensive! It's ironic that politicians from all sides tend to emphasise the importance of the family etc. yet we live in a society that is becoming increasingly more difficult for the average family to get by without either both parents working, or incurring extortionate child care costs.


    When I said about men asking for more money I meant at the interview stage as well. Not just pay increases, but initial pay. The theory is that men could be asking for more money from the start. If women aren't asking for as much money it kind of is up to them to start doing this, at least once they’re aware of it as an issue. If you don't ask you don't get! It's nothing to do with gender as it goes for men as well. How many employers will offer anyone more than what they are asking for? Especially in this climate. As a man I can say I've never once been offered more than I've said I was expecting, in fact it's almost always less because that's how negotiations tend to work. Your example of men not being told it's "their fault" for workplace accidents isn't entirely true. It's not as blunt as saying "well it's your fault", and I'm not suggesting that's how people should approach women with regards to asking for more money either. But putting health and safety legislation in place includes things like health and safety training, where people are told what they should/shouldn't do, and the purpose of this is so the employers can't be held liable if someone has been trained and not followed the correct guidance. It would be really insensitive to say to a grieving family "well it was their fault", which is probably why this doesn’t happen. But if they were shown what not to do and they did it anyway, then it is their fault. That's the whole point.


    I'm not saying there aren't cases where women are illegitimately being paid less. But none of the studies so far clearly indicate that women are being offered less than men purely because they are women, on a systemic level. They may be offered less in some cases but there could be a number of reasons for this. The majority of HR managers are women. I don’t know exactly how it works but I find it really hard to believe that so many companies could be illegitimately paying women less without it being picked up. I’m not saying it’s definitely not the case, so it will be interesting to see what the latest studies reveal. Hopefully they pay more attention to these other factors than the previous studies.


    My main issue with the "gender pay gap" is that there's this automatic assumption that it's all about gender discrimination, but it seems far more complicated than that. There are different approaches to equality. One can be for society to accommodate people to do things that they would otherwise not be able or expected to do, but there's also equality in terms of equally valuing the different roles we play. I think both are important, but in most of the discussions and articles I'm seeing it tends to be mostly the former that people are trying to achieve. I think that as well as women having more freedom to work if they want to, people should also value stay at home parents more than they currently do. There's always this notion that it's a lesser thing to be a "stay at home" parent, but I can say from my own experience that days with my daughter can be much harder work than days in the office! If the family is structured in a way that will adequately support the next generation of workers (whether it's the father or mother that decides to stay at home) then it's good for society as well. So it’s a far more important role than a lot of people make out.

    I know men are currently playing a more active role in parenting, myself included, and I think it’s a great thing. But a part of me also acknowledges that (in general) women are naturally inclined to play the more active role, especially in the earlier stages. So I’m not so sure that it’s a matter of women feeling forced into this role as much as it’s a matter of women naturally wanting to spend more time with their children, but needing to work instead. At least that’s what the studies indicate. Either way the government clearly needs to be more accommodating, because the way things are going seems to be having an increasingly negative impact on the family.
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