This discussion has been locked.

You can no longer post new replies to this discussion. If you have a question you can start a new discussion

What do I expect from IET – Community - France & Paris.

Former Community Member over 8 years ago

Firstly who are the IET Fr MIET members?

I joined this PEI in 1980 from Grenoble. I was on substantive leave from MoD. I decided to stay for a longer period and got married here. At that time we were the first to come over with the EU agreements of that period.

There were already ex-patriot UK people with huge benefits living here, there were the UK EU adventurers with no objectives but work was abundant, there were the first student exchanges, and some had married into French families. I did not meet any UK people who simply came here to live and work at that time.

Most of us found the difference between the UK and France as difficult as between the UK and China. They just did not live, eat or drink like us.

I was advised by the first UK settlers to just join in and enjoy myself, which I did.

I first met French culture when I organised the “entente cordiale” between the Concorde R&D groups of UK RAE and French ONERA. It was unbelievable, when the opportunity to have a job and career change came, I took up nuclear engineering in France.

I returned to the UK which had drastically changed – Thatcher, strikes, riots. My name was plagiarised in my work. I had to leave the UK after my employers failed to protect me. I returned to France.

The first time every one talked of the quality of life in France, the second time it was the Iraqi wars and crisis.

So what do you need to work and survive in France now and how can the IET French Community help.

France is huge; it is not realistic to travel from SE or SW France for a meeting in Paris.

Maybe we need a newcomers guide such as most French towns give to new arrivals.

France is still totally different from the UK.

We have different categories of IET members who are at least engineering & technology related.

-Ex-patriot, UK enterprise sales & marketing staff, Erasmus students, Enterprises from the UK that have delocalised with their staff, those that have married into families, entrepreneurs and SMEs in IT technology and those that now just want to work and live in France etc.

What would you advise

Should we have a MIET arrivals’ guide

Should we have guides to French language courses

Should we have guides to CPD in France

Should we give advice on French administration

What about the dos and don’ts of French culture.

Or should we just mind our own business and keep it to ourselves?

I recommend reading : Stephen Clarke – 1000 years of annoying the French and other titles and most of his references. French English history is not as taught in schools.

Out of season hotels in France are cheap, maybe one or two visits with IET families or friends to E&T venues could be affordable.

And the French Community AGM & voting should be on line and at distance.

I’m retiring from E&T have fun in France

Give Rob McCann some help

John Gowman MIET (ex ITEME Grenobl 1980)

Parents

0 Former Community Member over 7 years ago

Ref -William Davis
I am a CEng MIET working in France. I work on the ITER project so my position is probably different from most other MIETs in France - if I leave ITER I don't intend to stay in France.
·         Is it useful for the IET to promote the IET as a brand in France? Promotion of EC(UK) registration in France would be more useful, but must be done with a single voice in combination with the other EC(UK) institutions
·         The most useful thing the IET could do in France is make it easy for us to contact other MIETs and members of other EC(UK) institutions in our local area - ICE, IMechE, BCS, even smaller ones like the Nuclear Institute and the Institution of Measurement and Control - otherwise I have to become a non-paying member of all these other institutions, and I don't even know if that is possible.
·         Personally I would prefer that there was a single professional engineering institution for EC(UK) registration, not split up into IET, BCS, IMechE, ICE, etc. A separate institution for each engineering discipline is just overly complicated and dilutes the community and public voice of our profession. Even if we can't manage this in the UK, please can we at least make this possible in other countries?

William,

Your suggestion was the objective of I Mech I E which amalgamated with other PEIs outside of the major CEng PEIs, small institutes did the same and we came together to form IIE which was a CEng & IEng PEI and then with IEE we created IET.
The I Mec E and the Civil engineers put a stop to this amalgamation.
We wanted a “Groupement d’Interet”- no word for that in English, it is a group of companies working on a single project without binding contracts.
I have suggested an umbrella organization and UKEC is not disagreed with that idea. Prof EFF has suggested much the same.
In Europe the UK PEI’s and other professional associations are meeting and working together. It seems that the UK will not accept any form of change to the Professional Registration whilst the PEIs want to be independent and dominant.

You work for ITER, I was nominated engineer in charge at JET as I had saved the project from blocking points on five occasions. I do not know if you are a contractor or an EU ITER employee. You should make it clear that you have, apart from the best job in the world, a return ticket to the UK. We lesser mortals have to fight the markets and politicians to survive.

ITER, ILL, CERN are the best examples of Engineering & Technology with equal national and gender status. This is supposed to be IET’s goal. But like all big projects IET has gone through the first phase; is being modified in the second phase; and will be taken over by staff and CEng Electricals in the third stage - as on most big projects. This is why EURATOM, CERN, ILL reorganize and start afresh every so often. The model cannot be kept up-with from the first day.

IET, ECUK, & PEI’s will have to change or they will be changed externally or internally.

What we are seeing in Europe is the first stage of change, market forces will take over from the status quo. If we need to communicate and cooperate as engineering & technology professionals, we will do so with or without HQ.

Let’s look at ITER; The House of Lords has said it is Cloud Cuckoo Land, Cowley says he will never see Fusion energy (he resigned), Llewellyn-Smith says it will work, but not efficiently, in 2050.
I will not give my point of view here.

So what is so good about ITER?

It is the holistic effect of putting together several hundred of the world’s top technologies with the best technologists it can find. Do they believe in Fusion? It is not important, what is important is developing leading technology together ( there are better ways of doing this but no one has succeeded).
What ITER is doing, is what this blog is trying to do – put together technologists from all domains to communicate and cooperate; in Europe, outside of the UK restrictions.
We are not interested in Asia or elsewhere, we are interested in ourselves and our technologies. We are in unfamiliar ground and not helped by the systems where we live. Some have made a break and others are sitting tight and not integrating.

My question was; is it worth having an IET outpost in France (& Europe); for what objective and is it realistic or worthwhile?
At ITER you have everything.
I have had no contact with UK PEIs and I have made a good effort to integrate into Technology in France, ( I cannot give details). I have seen many give up and go back to the UK.

I’ve got the ball rolling, what you have said sums up the situation.
Members have to do what they want to do, we are not a club, we are like minded professionals and in France we have liberty, seek fraternity and would like equality with Grande Ecoles.
I think the replies on this blog have exposed the problem, the difficulties and there is a team willing to organize and communicate.

I’m bowing now.
John Gowman.
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

Cancel

Reply

0 Former Community Member over 7 years ago

Ref -William Davis
I am a CEng MIET working in France. I work on the ITER project so my position is probably different from most other MIETs in France - if I leave ITER I don't intend to stay in France.
·         Is it useful for the IET to promote the IET as a brand in France? Promotion of EC(UK) registration in France would be more useful, but must be done with a single voice in combination with the other EC(UK) institutions
·         The most useful thing the IET could do in France is make it easy for us to contact other MIETs and members of other EC(UK) institutions in our local area - ICE, IMechE, BCS, even smaller ones like the Nuclear Institute and the Institution of Measurement and Control - otherwise I have to become a non-paying member of all these other institutions, and I don't even know if that is possible.
·         Personally I would prefer that there was a single professional engineering institution for EC(UK) registration, not split up into IET, BCS, IMechE, ICE, etc. A separate institution for each engineering discipline is just overly complicated and dilutes the community and public voice of our profession. Even if we can't manage this in the UK, please can we at least make this possible in other countries?

William,

Your suggestion was the objective of I Mech I E which amalgamated with other PEIs outside of the major CEng PEIs, small institutes did the same and we came together to form IIE which was a CEng & IEng PEI and then with IEE we created IET.
The I Mec E and the Civil engineers put a stop to this amalgamation.
We wanted a “Groupement d’Interet”- no word for that in English, it is a group of companies working on a single project without binding contracts.
I have suggested an umbrella organization and UKEC is not disagreed with that idea. Prof EFF has suggested much the same.
In Europe the UK PEI’s and other professional associations are meeting and working together. It seems that the UK will not accept any form of change to the Professional Registration whilst the PEIs want to be independent and dominant.

You work for ITER, I was nominated engineer in charge at JET as I had saved the project from blocking points on five occasions. I do not know if you are a contractor or an EU ITER employee. You should make it clear that you have, apart from the best job in the world, a return ticket to the UK. We lesser mortals have to fight the markets and politicians to survive.

ITER, ILL, CERN are the best examples of Engineering & Technology with equal national and gender status. This is supposed to be IET’s goal. But like all big projects IET has gone through the first phase; is being modified in the second phase; and will be taken over by staff and CEng Electricals in the third stage - as on most big projects. This is why EURATOM, CERN, ILL reorganize and start afresh every so often. The model cannot be kept up-with from the first day.

IET, ECUK, & PEI’s will have to change or they will be changed externally or internally.

What we are seeing in Europe is the first stage of change, market forces will take over from the status quo. If we need to communicate and cooperate as engineering & technology professionals, we will do so with or without HQ.

Let’s look at ITER; The House of Lords has said it is Cloud Cuckoo Land, Cowley says he will never see Fusion energy (he resigned), Llewellyn-Smith says it will work, but not efficiently, in 2050.
I will not give my point of view here.

So what is so good about ITER?

It is the holistic effect of putting together several hundred of the world’s top technologies with the best technologists it can find. Do they believe in Fusion? It is not important, what is important is developing leading technology together ( there are better ways of doing this but no one has succeeded).
What ITER is doing, is what this blog is trying to do – put together technologists from all domains to communicate and cooperate; in Europe, outside of the UK restrictions.
We are not interested in Asia or elsewhere, we are interested in ourselves and our technologies. We are in unfamiliar ground and not helped by the systems where we live. Some have made a break and others are sitting tight and not integrating.

My question was; is it worth having an IET outpost in France (& Europe); for what objective and is it realistic or worthwhile?
At ITER you have everything.
I have had no contact with UK PEIs and I have made a good effort to integrate into Technology in France, ( I cannot give details). I have seen many give up and go back to the UK.

I’ve got the ball rolling, what you have said sums up the situation.
Members have to do what they want to do, we are not a club, we are like minded professionals and in France we have liberty, seek fraternity and would like equality with Grande Ecoles.
I think the replies on this blog have exposed the problem, the difficulties and there is a team willing to organize and communicate.

I’m bowing now.
John Gowman.
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

Cancel

Children

No Data

What do I expect from IET – Community - France & Paris.

Community Rules & Guidelines