So women are grumbing about being valued less than men and you feel "I" am being cyical. Well that is any interesting take on the behaviour I see from the ladies. I understand where they are coming from I just don't think that anyone is being realistic. As as for me being cylical - true. Does that negate my analyisis? I don't think so. Do you want to understand what is going on and why. You appear not to.


As for you as an HR rep, your valuation is irrelevant is this argument. The only  valuation (or worth) is that expressed by the business owner. The funny thing about this type of discussion is that as soon as someone comes along with a realisitic view which explains the reality of the situation, people (you) and I expect others will - start jumping up and down. And once that person's view has been pushed onto the rubbish tip, the group all return to the same old round of moaining without any attempt to explain the realitity of the situation. So to some extent you all get what you deserve. There is none so blind... need I continue?


And then the very people who show they can't apply logic and observation to establish the reality of the situation grumble becuase they are seen as engineers to be less valuable that male engineers. 


It's interesting to note that this type of discussion has been going on particularly strongly since women discovered they can be more than just "pretty little things" after supporting the Second World War effort so effectively. Or more to the chagrin of the UK men-folk who made the simultaneous discovery and couldn’t tell the girls to get back to the kitchen where they belong...

And in all that time I have watch so-called engineers completely fail to apply the same solution-seeking techniques and abilities they use on a daily basis to answer this question. This is for the ladies as well.... If they want to be on this ride, they will have to muck-in with the men – unless they are too delicate and feel they are a special case…

I note that as soon as this type of question appears, the men become all macho and judgemental and the women hysterical - talk about stereotypes!

I found great interest in the film Disclosure (1994) when Michael Douglas was trying to solve the problem of who was behind his troubles (funnily enough it was a woman – but that’s another story J ) – the point was the need to “solve the problem”. He kept getting an email from someone signing himself “A friend”, which is an incidental but for me added to the mystery: the text of these message was “Solve the problem”.

He did eventually but it left that phrase in my head. My work has always been solving problems and as time went by I often realised that I was not solving the problem because I was not identifying it – I was not pulling it to pieces and identifying every last element each of which needed a solution; and indeed people… society, don’t “solve the problem” (IMHO) because they don’t identify it. The same goes with this one.

(IMHO) you are all responding to feelings and dogmatisms which of course results in a never-ending argument which is as close to a solution today as it was seventy years ago.

So I throw out that challenge: What is the problem that needs solving? Then you will have your answer.

So women are grumbing about being valued less than men and you feel "I" am being cyical. Well that is any interesting take on the behaviour I see from the ladies. I understand where they are coming from I just don't think that anyone is being realistic. As as for me being cylical - true. Does that negate my analyisis? I don't think so. Do you want to understand what is going on and why. You appear not to.


As for you as an HR rep, your valuation is irrelevant is this argument. The only  valuation (or worth) is that expressed by the business owner. The funny thing about this type of discussion is that as soon as someone comes along with a realisitic view which explains the reality of the situation, people (you) and I expect others will - start jumping up and down. And once that person's view has been pushed onto the rubbish tip, the group all return to the same old round of moaining without any attempt to explain the realitity of the situation. So to some extent you all get what you deserve. There is none so blind... need I continue?


And then the very people who show they can't apply logic and observation to establish the reality of the situation grumble becuase they are seen as engineers to be less valuable that male engineers. 


It's interesting to note that this type of discussion has been going on particularly strongly since women discovered they can be more than just "pretty little things" after supporting the Second World War effort so effectively. Or more to the chagrin of the UK men-folk who made the simultaneous discovery and couldn’t tell the girls to get back to the kitchen where they belong...

And in all that time I have watch so-called engineers completely fail to apply the same solution-seeking techniques and abilities they use on a daily basis to answer this question. This is for the ladies as well.... If they want to be on this ride, they will have to muck-in with the men – unless they are too delicate and feel they are a special case…

I note that as soon as this type of question appears, the men become all macho and judgemental and the women hysterical - talk about stereotypes!

I found great interest in the film Disclosure (1994) when Michael Douglas was trying to solve the problem of who was behind his troubles (funnily enough it was a woman – but that’s another story J ) – the point was the need to “solve the problem”. He kept getting an email from someone signing himself “A friend”, which is an incidental but for me added to the mystery: the text of these message was “Solve the problem”.

He did eventually but it left that phrase in my head. My work has always been solving problems and as time went by I often realised that I was not solving the problem because I was not identifying it – I was not pulling it to pieces and identifying every last element each of which needed a solution; and indeed people… society, don’t “solve the problem” (IMHO) because they don’t identify it. The same goes with this one.

(IMHO) you are all responding to feelings and dogmatisms which of course results in a never-ending argument which is as close to a solution today as it was seventy years ago.

So I throw out that challenge: What is the problem that needs solving? Then you will have your answer.