Degree trumps C&G?

Well it rather depends - what are these folk with these qualifications going to be expected to do  - the real question is does the qualification include exposure to all the techniques they will need in practice.

As a very noddy example I'd not necessarily expect the C and G person to be at ease with differential equations and the finesse of control theory, though they may be. The degree chaps may or may not be at ease being expected to look up at a bundle of cables supplying a lighting circuit and deciding if they were suitable for extra load or not, and what exactly the other options may be.

There is no simple 'trumping' as the areas of expertise do not totally overlap - so define what these folk will actually be doing. It may be that neither qualification is necessary, or on the other hand even both  may be insufficient.

M

Thank you mapj1 for the reply. It is indeed down to the work application. Neither qualification is a direct certificate of ability within the job role they are carrying out. I just find it annoying that these youngs guys with terrific qualifications are being asked to do a level 4 course. To my mind it is the equivalent of asking a graduate mathematician to do A level maths. I may never get a definitive answer to this! I suspect it is client driven and some will be happy and others not

I'd go further than it just being client driven, and as said above they are completely different: a degree (simplistically) is about how to think about issues and very high level background knowledge so you can develop something new, the C&G is about current standards and how to meet them to today's best practice - which a degree will not be giving. Degrees are about tomorrow, not today.

So I would have no hesitation about putting a graduate through C&G if they need specific knowledge of standards and techniques to meet them. My degree is in electrical engineering but I wouldn't rewire my house without going through 18th edition training first! I know how to go about writing the regs, that's different from knowing what this year's regs actually are and the best way to meet them... 

Good question.

Cheers, Andy

I think nothing of expecting a graduate mathematician to go onto a course in numerical computer programming techniques however if the project requires it  - and in the sense of the partial overlap it may be more like that. I'd expect them to pick it up fast though.

Thanks Andy. I do agree with that. Right up to the point you said you’d do the 18th Edition before you rewired  your house. That is a certificate in how to use the book. You should actually have a full competence in the area you are working. And that’s my issue. A lot of C&G course are so short that they simply can’t hold a candle to on job training plus a degree in electrical engineering. 

it does seem I am going to have to admit defeat though and get the guys on this course

To be honest I think it’s more the person that has raised it than the issue itself. I need to just put the guys on the course and tick the box!

I think you pick up the necessary knowledge and skills as you go along. Its all a question of what is required to complete the job at hand.

I worked alongside a Russian scientist many years ago, I hasen to add, who learn't how to program Fortran in two days so he could continue with his experiments.

The one week level 4 City and Guilds is intended for qualified electricians who have been working and training for at least three years, so they have three years experience along with a level 2 and 3 in electrical installation plus a level 3 qualification in inspecting and testing along with a level 3 qualification to demonstrate an understanding of current edition of the wiring regulations.

If your degree educated engineers don’t have the inspecting and testing qualification they will have to do this as part of the course to get the C&G 3696.

The Design, Erection and Verification course covers all the requirements to sign the Electrical Installation Certificate for each of those .

So, are your engineers capable of signing to say the have checked and approved the design, they have checked and approved the installation work, as well as testing and verifying the installation to say it is safe to energise and use?

What testing qualifications and experience do they have to verify the installation work?

How many boxes on an Electrical Installation Certificate do your engineers sign, how many can they sign?

I think if you believe this is going to just be a tick box exercise and don’t approach it with a sensible plan it could all end in tears.

Back when I did the course it was only considered to be a Level 3, it has been upgraded since then. I did it in my fourth year of study having gained C&G2360 parts 1+2, the C&G 16 th Edition and the C&G Inspection and Testing.

There is not a minimum qualification requirement to take this course, which works in your favour as the graduates are not going to be disqualified for not having specific qualifications, however I really do think they need to at least do the C&G 18th Edition alone with the C&G Inspection and Testing before attempting the Design, Erection and Verification course, as advised by C&G on their website, if they have not already done so:

Candidate entry requirements
City & Guilds does not set entry requirements for this qualification. However, centres must ensure that candidates have the potential and opportunity to gain the qualification successfully.
Before undertaking this qualification candidates should seriously consider undertaking the Level 3 Award in Initial Verification and Certification of Electrical Installations (2394) and/or Level 3 Award in the Periodic Inspection, Testing and Certification of Electrical Installations (2395) as well as obtaining industry experience. It is also strongly recommended that candidates have achieved either the City & Guilds Certificate in the Requirements for Electrical Installations (BS7671) (2382) or similar qualifications where candidates have demonstrated knowledge and understanding of the 17th edition in order to ensure they have every opportunity of achieving this qualifications.

www.cityandguilds.com/.../2396-l4_award_dv_electrical_installations_qualification-handbook-v1-1-pdf.ashx