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Friday funny..

  • A couple of thoughts after reading the article;

    There is black body radiation to consider too.

    Also Venus is an example of runaway greenhouse effect, with temperatures (hot enough to melt lead) at the poles and equator pretty much equal.

  • If the black body you refer to is space itself then I'd expect all heat goes to cold so whatever Heat Venus has eventually leaches that way.

    No one has been to Venus to assess its atmosphere. There is very little understanding of our own atmosphere. As is clear form the differing views.

  • Well heat loss goes as the 4th power of absolute temp, and yes, absorption and emissivity are exactly equal for very good reasons of not breaking the laws of thermodynamics.

    Edit

    Let us investigate where that simple equilibrium would be with 1380 watts/m2 incident would get us- if the simple model in the original post really applied.

    First we need the constant relating power and temperature, so thanks to messrs Stefan & Bolzman, this  is measured as

    5.670374419 × 108 watt per square metre per kelvin to the fourth

    So to radiate off that 1370 watts arriving per square metre needs  a temperature T such that

    T= 4th root of (1380/5.67E-8) = 4th root of 24338624338 = 395K

    or ~ 121 degrees C

    Really that simple sum should have been attached to the  original dialogue, as it makes the point rather well that the simple model that  illumination and radiation are in equilibrium and it can be assumed to be perfectly uniform is imperfect.

    It certainly gets you close enough for a first go, and  121 C is well within an order of magnitude of the right answer,  (a full order  of magnitude would permit anything between 30K to 3000K ) but is not an accurate enough model to get close enough to explain why we are not all dead ;-)
    Luckily the system is rather more complex than the simple view suggests. It helps that the emissivity of the planet is not uniform, so it does cool off rather more at night than it absorbs during the day , when working properly.

    Mike

    PS it is quite fun to halve the incident solar power - perhaps the planet cools for 24 hrs per day but warms for only 12. Then 690 watts per m2 illumination.

    T= 4th root of (690/5.67E-8) = 4th root of 12154306852 = 333K

    or ~ 60 degrees C again close, closer actually, but not right.

    The effect of halving the solar input is a 60 degree fall in equilibrium temperature - the effect of that 4th power is that you need surprisingly large changes in solar flux to alter the temperature very much at all.

    Again, all we have learnt is that this simple model is not the full story.

  • https://www.tec-science.com/thermodynamics/temperature/stefan-boltzmann-law/

    Interesting.

  • A few space probes have been there.  They didn't last very long, 2 hours tops, as the temperature on the surface is fierce.

    https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/venus/in-depth/

  • There's an interesting article here, it relates to flat earth theories but as the author says, the same thought process is required with climate change deniers (or anti-vaxers, or creationists, etc etc)

    https://physicsworld.com/a/fighting-flat-earth-theory/

    So taking your link (which I'd also thought of posting for the same reason), once someone's decided that all institutions are in on this conspiracy then they can refute it by simply saying the evidence is faked or twisted, because NASA are under the control of the UN who in turn are under the control of Greta Thunberg or something equally bonkers. 

    It's real problem. The quote I was actually looking for (but couldn't find) when I stumbled upon this article was from a physicist saying something like "20 years ago we were discussing solutions to climate change. Now we have to spend our time explaining that no, the earth isn't flat". And as the article says isn't through lack of knowledge, it's the complete mistrust of "experts". Rather challenging for a society which only exists as it does and survives through scientific and other expertise.

    Oh dear, sorry that's a bit of downer for the end of the week! On the bright side COP27 is still happening.

  • Fierce as hell. When the day lasts longer than the year there is no even heating for Venus. 

  • I'm also looking forward to COP27 virtue signalling debacle. Where the rich elite will swan around after jetting in to Sham el shake dictating that the end of the world is nigh. Please give us all your money. For starters Rishi needs to pay the £300 million outstanding from the climate finance payment. No wonder he didn't want to attend.

    Anyway we'll see the so called IPCC flawed climate model/settled science nonsense continue.

    And if that's not interesting enough, the US mid terms are next week too.

    Happy days..

  • Watch this kick ass interview Andy

    wattsupwiththat.com/.../