Fascinating! The report reveals that by 2030, the engineering sector will experience a net decline of 96,000 jobs, mainly due to the substitution of workers in manufacturing, construction, and transport by automation and outsourcing. I wonder how this will affect the UK in terms of its economic, social, and environmental aspects?

Fascinating! The report reveals that by 2030, the engineering sector will experience a net decline of 96,000 jobs, mainly due to the substitution of workers in manufacturing, construction, and transport by automation and outsourcing. I wonder how this will affect the UK in terms of its economic, social, and environmental aspects?

It will allow those who believe this sort of report to make very detailed plans for entirely the wrong sort of future, which is probably no great change to be honest.

Which hopefully keeps them out of mischief.

Mike.

Hi Mike. Are you implying that the report is not based on valid and trustworthy data sources and methods, and that the impact of AI and LLMs on the engineering sector and the UK labour market and education is not a significant and relevant issue that demands careful and proactive attention and action?

Not quite. I just think this will not be very accurate. Have you read it ? Mainly the report seems to be looking at other people studies and extrapolating, and is quite simplistic in breaking down jobs into the skills it needs  and then saying 'can that bit of the skill be automated ?' .  It does not mean that the person is out of a job, just that one aspect of their job changes at a time much as it did when we got digital scopes and meters.
BTW I do not see the figure of 96000 jobs alluded by the OP and for what it is worth EE ane E engineers are on lines near 300 in the sheet 1 of the spreadsheet annex , and not  in the 'highly impacted' list in the actual doc. Mainly I think because we already have been using computers for design and so for years.

M.

Maybe you are right, and the report is not very accurate or reliable. Maybe the impact of AI and LLMs on the engineering sector and the UK labour market and education is not as significant or relevant as the report suggests. Maybe the skills and policies that are needed to prepare for the future of work are not as urgent or important as the report recommends. Only time will tell how the engineering sector and the UK will adapt to the changes and challenges brought by AI and LLMs. But I think it is better to be prepared and proactive than to be complacent and reactive.

 is not as significant or relevant as the report suggests.

Well I am not at all clear what that report does actually suggest will happen to be honest, and that is one of my gripes with it.

Come what may, learning the right skills for future patterns of work will be important, but that is not news - it always has been to those of us with technical roles. As I get older I get more convinced that the govt policy will only become really important if it breaks something,  and is in my opinion at least, most likely to be successful if it involves staying out of the way unless really necessary.

Actually I am slightly reassured that the report  sees managers and directors as most likely to be affected - that I can believe, given the sort of waffle thing chat GPT does well.

Having recently seen a demo of AI failing to design an RF PCB, despite being trained by looking at lots of good examples, I think there is some way to go.  Like self driving cars it will come slower than predicted by its proponents. After all let us not forget the 2015 predictions that by 2020 there would be 10 million self driving cars in use ? And here we are. Not quite - maybe another few years.

Mike.

I wonder what AI would make of BS7671 would it be able to understand it and implement it?  How would it do Risk Analysis and safe systems of work?  Would you or insurance company accept a plan done by an AI and what happens if something fails?

AI has its place and uses.  Mainly to assist a human

I take it that AI hasn't improved much on the PCB autorouters that I was using in the mid 90's then. They were good for getting a good start on things, but you always ended up having to tidy afterwards.

I contend that managers and directors are the most resilient to the effects of chat GPT, as they engage in more sophisticated and subtle activities that chat GPT is ill-equipped to perform. It can also exacerbate the challenges they face, such as moral quandaries, miscommunication, and quality assurance. What if someone responded to you with the same discourtesy? (Actually I am slightly reassured that the report  sees managers and directors as most likely to be affected - that I can believe, given the sort of waffle thing chat GPT does well.)It seems to me that consultants are the ones who are apprehensive about AI, as they work in bureaucratic settings and have a sense of arrogance over the manual workers. Those of us who use our hands, who are engaged and proficient in our trade, have nothing to fear. BS 7671 is the standard for electricians, yet there are  those who masquerade as a physicist on this forum. How do they think they would fare on a forum for physicians? I doubt they are anything like Heisenberg, maybe you are the exception? Some advice, keep your manners and kindness when you write online.

I get the vibe that perhaps that  was a dig at me ?

Perhaps I should put my cards on the table, I am indeed a Consultant Electrical and Electronic Engineer by title - in the sense that is what is printed on my business cards, but the first degree is an MA in physics, and the PhD is from an Electrical and Electronic Engineering department, and relates to lases, optical fibres (which were far newer back then) and optical switches.

For some  years I worked on international telecom standards, but as I wanted to be more at home in the UK when the kids were growing up, that wound up more than 10 years ago, and I am the design authority for a number of products working out in the field today. If anything, I 'walt' as an electrician, as while electricity and electronics is a very large part of what I do day to day, actual electrical installation really has not been a large part of it for some years and on the tools myself I am neither fast nor neat.  I do like to keep up to date with current practice and regulations however. 

I do not generally mention any of this experience, or my qualifications, either in general conversation, or on here, as I do not feel these details, some from the last century, are all that relevant - I will however pull in any domain knowledge I can when it appears to be useful or relevant to any particular discussion.

In terms of looking down on those who have a practical trait you could not be more wrong - I have great admiration for those who can make things neatly and repeatedly, two areas where I am all too aware I often fail. On the bench, fault finding and ugly prototypes are more my thing. I do pop up sometimes in a physics forum but not under the same name, which I think is what you meant, though I agree amongst physicians (medics) I would indeed soon be lost - I  flunked out of O level biology, and worse am distinctly squeamish.

Of course if that comment was not aimed at me then I'm being far too thin-skinned and you can ignore me. If it was, at least you can now comment from a better informed position.

Mike.

My intention was not to target you specifically, but rather to express my aspiration that the social hierarchy shifts, and those who possess practical skills experience the benefits of being in a dominant position. # manual labourers!