Neurodiversity support for engineers

Question

It seems that I missed much of the discussion that took place a year or two back on neurodiversity and how firms can support neurodiverse members. What I haven't seen in the discussions and the associated report is what the IET itself does to support such individuals. 
 I did raise a query on one of the discussion groups a few years ago, as to how characters like Turing and Tesla would have fared in IET registration interviews. The discussion was side-lined onto their technical abilities and somewhat glossed over how their neurodiversity might have worked against them. Does the IET make any recognition of individuals differing social abilities when it is assessing them?

GraemeA · Accepted Answer

Hi Alex, glad you've raised this. We certainly do recognise that people experience the world differently, and absolutely recognise that the professional registration process presents barriers for many engineers. We're working both internally and externally to address this. A couple of things to do: we'd love your input on our Neurodiversity Member Network -- we meet virtually every 8 weeks or so. You can email inclusion@theiet.org if you're interested. So that I don't mention anything sensitive here, I can also ask our EDI team to jump on this thread to provide some better information about the work I've mentioned above. Hope that's helpful for now and look forward to more discussion on this thread. 
 And, rereading your post, how Turing and Tesla might have fared is a really great way to frame the discussion. Will ponder that, too.

Andy Millar · Answer

Alex Barrett said: Does the IET make any recognition of individuals differing social abilities when it is assessing them? 
 I suspect, from my experience, that the answer is no - but I only see the process as a PRA, not as an assessor / interviewer so there may be a different answer. However it also begs another question "Do the differing social abilities of individuals affect their assessment by the IET for professional registration?" It would be interesting to know if this question has been / does get reviewed. 
 That said, and I'll admit this is only semi-anecdotal, I've been mentoring applicants through the process for probably over 20 years now, and PRA'ing for 7. who have covered a very wide range of issues. I've never come across a problem in this - e.g. on your specific point my experience is that the process doesn't expect any level of social skills beyond a basic ability to communicate technical information. (And I suspect the opinion of the draftees of UK-SPEC would be that it is a requirement for professional registration that the applicant can effectively communicate technical information.) I think any engineering manager will say that they have certain staff who, for example, they wouldn't "put in front of a client", and who may spend their working days almost completely isolated. But I have equally seen such staff get through the professional registration process just fine. (And indeed, I have come across interviewers / assessors whose social skills I would not necessarily rate highly! Only in the past of course ) 
 Getting really anecdotal now, probably the applicants I've seen who've come closest to struggling with the process are those who maybe exhibit ADHD - the process itself does require a level of patience, concentration, and attention to detail. Now I suspect again the UK-SPEC draftees would say those are essential engineering skills, I can see this one a bit from both sides - there are brilliantly intuitive engineers who drive change and improvement even if they are relying on others to do the detailed delivery aspects (I'm a huge fan of Belbin team roles!). Again, provided the process looks for "sufficient" rather than "world leading" abilities here that's ok, and again in my experience it's not generally been a problem, but it is probably (anecdotally!) where I've seen problems come closest. I have seen applicants drop out of the process where I've wondered if there may be an ADHD element...but again I suspect the assessors may feel that if they can't cope with this process they may not be suitable for registration. 
 So none of that is to say that we shouldn't be continuously reviewing and checking that there aren't unintended biases in the processes (perhaps particularly in the presentation / interview process), maybe someone more involved on that side will see this thread and comment. 
 Personally I'm just very glad that when I applied (in 1998) there was no requirement to apply in handwriting, I show symptoms of mild dyspraxia, which amongst other things means I find handwriting challenging. Which in turn meant I spent much of my early career (pre computers) being told by certain senior engineers that I was incompetent due to the untidiness (and indeed often absence) of my written work. So yes, I very much appreciate the question...it's classic KPI stuff, are you sure what you're measuring is really the right thing to measure for what you're trying to achieve. 
 Thanks, 
 Andy

Dorrie Giles · Answer

Hi Alex 
 Thanks for raising this, it is really important that those affected by Neurodiversity get all the help they need from the IET and, Foothold, the IET's Benevolent Fund has help available. It has developed expert advice, resources and support for neurodiverse engineers, students and apprentices, and those who support them - designed to help members reach their full potential, and live a fulfilled life. So, I trust the registration team at the IET and all those wonderful IET volunteers who interview and do their utmost to support candidates for registration will go to https://www.myfoothold.org/join-differently-wired-hub/ and Join the Differently Wired Hub.

Andy Millar · Answer

This is a difficult one, and not something that can really be discussed here, in that it all depends on why you where unsuccessful at interview - which could be for completely different reasons. Although there is a level of confidentiality around this, if you used a PRA they have full access to the interview notes which can be very telling (occasionally it can be interesting as a PRA having to tell candidates things they really don't want to hear!) The interview results are relatively black and white, they are based on whether the candidate shows each of the competences. If a candidate is failed mainly on competence D then that might be a flag here - however it would (I can very much see both sides of this one) be a discussion of whether their communication skills met that required for effective communication of engineering matters, as opposed to whether their communication met the expected approach by the panel (which I agree could be inappropriate). 
 In a completely different context I was discussing this week the challenge of how do you know when you need to monitor for a problem, because monitoring for a problem is expensive, so to justify that expense you need to show that there is a problem, but you don't know if you have a problem unless you are monitoring for it... However, IF candidates came forward with evidence that (e.g.) they are clearly communicating effectively in the workplace, but were rejected at interview for poor communication (which, as mentioned, the PRA will know) then they may have grounds for appeal which may in turn cause the process to be reviewed. 
 However, I would not suggest at all following the path of "who are these interviewers". The interviewers are not assessing whether you are competent to work in your particular field, they are assessing whether you meet the UK-SPEC criteria. It's certainly easier to assess someone when you have some understanding of their technical and business fields, e.g. management responsibility in a small business is different to management responsibility in a multinational, technical responsibility in fast changing consumer goods is different to technical responsibility in slow moving utilities industries. But it's pretty unlikely that the majority across the panels will be not capable of doing so. 
 As I suggest above, there are many, many people showing autistic spectrum traits - sometimes very severely - who get through interview successfully every year. (I work a business where CEng is a requirement for all senior staff, trust me, we have quite a few who are either self or professional diagnosed! Safety critical rail engineering is the epicentre of the Venn diagram for the autistic spectrum...) And as a PRA I work with many failed candidates, who have failed for many reasons, But all the reasons I've seen have been that, in form or another, they have not demonstrated to the assessors that they exhibit the UK competences - very often because they've misunderstood what the assessors are looking for. 
 Maybe it's too far in the past now to be possible (you didn't say when your "poor results" were from), but if the latest one was recent I cannot suggest strongly enough finding out what the reason actually was, then it will be clearer to you (and the IET) whether this may have been related to any non-competence related issue. But certainly never assume you know what the reason was, I cannot offhand think of a time when I've had a failed candidate referred to me where the reason they assumed they were unsuccessful turned out to be the actual reason they were unsuccessful. 
 Hope that makes sense, 
 Andy

davidwalker2 · Answer

I have a degree of dyspraxia, self- diagnosed as when I was born it was not a recognised condition. Like most with a similar condition, over the years I have adopted a number of strategies that make it nearly undetectable (except to my wife!). I welcomed and embraced computers and word processors with spelling and grammar checks. 
 I am contributing from a personal point of view, not for the IET. I am a volunteer in the Registration process and very familiar with the assessment and interview procedure, all of which is carried out by volunteers. The people involved in any application are chosen to have expertise in the areas of the applicant&rsquo;s experience. A perfect match is not possible of course but we are well trained and experienced. The interview is the only stage where the applicant is met face-to-face. Allowance may be made at the interview IF you let them know in advance what your difficulty is. 
 As Andy said, it helps to have the advice and guidance of a PRA, both to prepare your application and to prepare for the interview. At the end of the day the interviewers have to assess against the UKSpec competences of which communication is one; but one that impinges on all the others. If you did have a PRA then speak to them if you want to know more detail of your interview results, otherwise you should have an indication in your letter which competences were weakest. 
 David

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