Wind versus Coal

An interesting little side piece in E+T.  It will require 233  5 MW wind turbines to replace one 500 MW coal fired power station. This will occupy 55 square mile. This is also assuming quite a high capacity factor of nearly 43% but I will keep to the quoted numbers.

 

I am not sure if it is viable /sensible to build new coal fired power stations. The Chinese and the Indians certainly think that it is. So to look at the nuclear option:

To replace a 3 MW nuclear power plant with 2 EPR units, Hinkley point C or Sizewell C, will require 330 square miles to be filled with wind turbines (maybe more depending on the wake effect).

www.wind-energy-the-facts.org/wake-effect.html

This is more than twice the area of the Isle of Wight, not impossible but politically very difficult.

The more important question is the resources required. It is difficult to find numbers for the concrete and steel requirements for wind turbines. I do understand that this is affected by the ground conditions and foundation requirements however some number exist in this 2011 document.

pubs.usgs.gov/.../sir2011-5036.pdf

Table 5, page 12,  gives 100 tonnes of steel per MW and 400 tonnes of concrete per MW.  So to replace Hinkley Point C will, according to Kurt Cobb, require 6990 MW of wind turbines.

Steel 6990 * 100 tonnes  = 699 000 tonnes

Concrete 6990 * 400 tonnes = 2 796 000 tonnes.

The quoted figures for Hinkley Point C are:

Steel 280 000 tonnes

Concrete 3 000 000 tonnes.

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/innovative-thinking/projects-innovation-drives-hinkley-point-c-16-01-2019/

https://chamberuk.com/chrisfayers/

So similar amounts of concrete and a lot less steel for Hinkley Point C. The NPP has an expected life span of 80 years, wind seems to be typically 20-25 years.

Hinkley Point C could also use a lot less materials, cost less and be on time if it was built somewhere other than the UK:

www.spectator.co.uk/.../

Is wind power a sensible use of our finite resources?

Parents
  • It will require 233  5 MW wind turbines to replace one 500 MW coal fired power station.

    Luckily, we don't have any coal fire power stations left to replace... ;-)

       - Andy.

  • Yes, no coal stations but if gas and oil are required for transport  and get expensive then we may need to use coal with flue scrubbers to remove unwanted chemicals as an alternative power source when wind is not blowing.

    Our useful wind always comes from the SW and so why can't we build a string of wind generators spaced at 500 metre intervals which will also carry a 400 kV line hanging vertically on the back of the pylons to reinforce the grid as suggested in the E&T article p32.. This will reduce the planning permissions to a minimum and make for really easy maintenance.  Could also put a substation every 5 km or so, to invert the DC wind generators output to AC. 

Reply
  • Yes, no coal stations but if gas and oil are required for transport  and get expensive then we may need to use coal with flue scrubbers to remove unwanted chemicals as an alternative power source when wind is not blowing.

    Our useful wind always comes from the SW and so why can't we build a string of wind generators spaced at 500 metre intervals which will also carry a 400 kV line hanging vertically on the back of the pylons to reinforce the grid as suggested in the E&T article p32.. This will reduce the planning permissions to a minimum and make for really easy maintenance.  Could also put a substation every 5 km or so, to invert the DC wind generators output to AC. 

Children
  • Expanding this new idea further; what if we build a grid reinforcement 400 kV power line from Liverpool to London over open land on the back of wind turbine pylons 500 metres apart. 

    The turbines will be locked and face SW only but even if the wind is 45 degrees off at due south or west we still get Cosine 45 power from them 70% of the power. 

    The base load is best 25GW nuclear and coal if no wind but ideas of all renewables appears to be in doubt if this Australian broken hill report is correct.         judithcurry.com/.../