Digital ID Cards in the UK

In general as UK society we forget that there are many people who don't have smartphones, or indeed any IT access. My mother, who passed away a couple of years ago, never had either, my in-laws have a PC but struggle with more than the simplest task on it, they can't cope with smartphones at all. It is HUGELY frustrating to keep getting the message "just go online" or "just download the app".

Maybe I'm hugely naive, but I actually don't have a problem with this being on an app for myself, I do very seriously have a wider societal problem if it is only going to be online. (Plus also having a backup for the rest of of us for phone breakages, loss, no battery, no signal, etc etc etc.)

Agree completely. It has been an on-going concern for me with my elderly parents. My mother doesn't want a smartphone, and my father has advanced dementia and couldn't use one even if forced too. Recently I tried to open a sole bank account for my mother in a bank branch and was told unless it was setup on a smartphone, we had to call the same "special cases" line did using PoA for my father  as they refuse to do this work in-person in branch.

The leaving behind of the elderly, poor and less well off though enforced digitalisation is a big concern. I think government should treat their systems like any safety control system, and have redunancy that uses different core systems (like paper files) for any out-of-the-norm cases.

Agree completely. It has been an on-going concern for me with my elderly parents. My mother doesn't want a smartphone, and my father has advanced dementia and couldn't use one even if forced too. Recently I tried to open a sole bank account for my mother in a bank branch and was told unless it was setup on a smartphone, we had to call the same "special cases" line did using PoA for my father  as they refuse to do this work in-person in branch.

The leaving behind of the elderly, poor and less well off though enforced digitalisation is a big concern. I think government should treat their systems like any safety control system, and have redunancy that uses different core systems (like paper files) for any out-of-the-norm cases.

The elderly are catered for by the fact that this system is going to take a very long time to fully roll out, very long if consultants and contractors are involved (certain). But edge cases will always exist - e.g. someone born here, lives here, works here, but a quirk of history enables them to have a foreign passport. HMRC does not recognise anything other than British passports so they have no way of dealing with it (but have no problem collecting the tax!). Yes I know someone like that and these edge cases need to be dealt with.

And although I used the elderly as an example (because they are the ones that I have personal experience of) please let us not assume that everyone else has a smartphone and the capability to use it.

Labour used to be the party of ::

Adrian Hirst said:

the elderly, poor and less well of

They've gone wrong somewhere. Gross inequality is not a good look.

Roger Greenwood said:

The elderly are catered

I do NOT agree with that statement at all.  Everything is going online these days, local bank branches are being closed.  The elderly are being alienated by society and the government.  Some elderly people have health issues, sight issues thus using a computer or smart phone is very difficult for them.  Some find it impossible so have to ask for assistance from a family member or friend.  Some elderly people just don't want that sort of technology in their life.

It is not just the elderly that have issues with going online.  Some online platforms are just pure rubbish and not very easy to use or understand. 

What safeguard will there be for when things go wrong or get hacked or breached?  What happens to the person when the device they use gets compromised?

Question to the group.  At what age are you considered elderly?

According to my University age children, if you use Email you are so old.... It seems the goal posts are constantly on the move. I insist on them using Email or god forbid actually calling to interact with me however, as I dont have a phone that supports anything much more advanced and their preferred chatter 'apps' don't seem to support running on what I would call a 'proper computer'. 
It might be an idea to try something simpler like digital driving licences first.

There may well be 80 million smartphone users (* ref) in the UK, but I suspect many of them are the same person counted multiple times as there are quite a few folk I know without one. (I'm in my late 50s and work in a technical sector....)
Mike.

Interesting statistic given that the UK population is just over 70 million. I wonder if that statistic is more like 80 million smartphones rather than smartphone users? I have two myself, one for general use and another for incognito use i.e. when I have to pop my phone number into a website or using an app I'm not 100% sure of. It's always good fun to get a phone call or message from 'your bank' on a phone number you've never given them  

But on the subject of Digital ID, I personally don't have a problem with it as my phone knows so much about me anyway. We all basically handed over our privacy when we bought our first smartphone. 

Not everyone has a passport or a driving licence either so a physical card to complement or be used 'instead of' a digital option would be a good idea. 

Lisa Miles said:

Not everyone has a passport or a driving licence either so a physical card to complement or be used 'instead of' a digital option would be a good idea

Agreed

Germany uses a national identification system based on the electronic German ID card (eID card), a credit-card-sized document featuring an embedded RFID chip

HOWEVER

Germany has illegal immigration issue on par with the UK.  So I say to the politicians that claim the proposed UK ID system will fix the issue they should have at look at their EU counterparts.

I am 50 years old and work in IT and I know first hand how people struggle with technology and even worse is when there are new and emerging technologies.  Sometime the marketing people are rushing ahead before the tech is established.  Anyone remember WAP phones?  Anyone actually get it to do anything WAP related to an acceptable level?  When things go digital then they need to be kept up to date which means an endless cycle of software and hardware upgrades.  Thus an ID system on your smart phone will mean that you will then be forced to upgrade it at least every 3 to 5 years but more realistically it will be every 2 years or so to remain compliant.  

Lisa Miles said:

Not everyone has a passport or a driving licence

And some of us (admittedly probably very few these days) only have a paper driving licence with no photo, so need both driving licence and passport together to provide photo ID with proof of address. I am thinking of giving in and finally getting a photocard driving licence since it's such a pain not having simple photo ID.

Another elderly person issue, we found when sorting out my mum's affairs while she was still alive that the fact that she had neither driving licence nor passport proved a nightmare in proving her ID, e.g. when selling her house - even though we had power of attorney, there were times we still needed to prove who she was.

So personally I am all for the availability of ID cards in principle, the interesting question is around "compulsory". However in practice there are already so many requirements to present "suitable" ID that I tend to feel it all becomes a bit of a subtle point.

I have two myself,
Right,  but there need to be rather more than  10 million people doing that sort of thing, or perhaps just one person with 10 million phones, or more likely something in between those 2 extremes to explain the numbers.
It is certainly not safe to assume everyone has one, and even for those that do, that they are able to easily use it for all the options more complex than phone calls.
Mike.