Open back downlight EICR code

For me, it's a no code 'cos it's to do with fire integrity of the ceiling and nothing to do with the wiring. When the luminaire was fitted, it may well have complied with any regulations in force.


I might add that my daughter's house has some truly horrid luminaires (illumination is a bit of a misnomer) which will be coming out. The floorboards above become warm to the touch! Whilst I am only too happy to remove them and rewire the lighting circuit, fixing the holes in the ceilings will be her problem. ?

Sounds like a load of old nonsense to me.


if this is a standard house the ground and first floor are one fire compartment. No compartmentalisation between the ground and 1st floor so fitting open backed down lighters does not breach a compartment. Do a loft conversion then a fair chance the new second floor is a separate compartment so fire rated down lighters or top hats required. Same for flats below flats without concrete floors.


That said open backed down lighters fitted with halogen lamps are a fire eating to happen. I did a court case where an electrician fitted open backed down lighters with halogen lamps in to a lathe and plaster ceiling below a loft conversion causing a fire. Cost him £20,000 plus costs. 


So so no code for an EICR unless fire compartment breached. If breached then Code C2.

This depends on the building - in a block of flats or a maisonette type with another dweller above, it will be compartmented, but as JP has said, in a normal semi or   terrace where up and down are under  one owner and therefore forms one fire zone, then no hood needed.

Save in a single storey building or part of building, isn't a ceiling supposed to have a fire resistance of 30 min?

in a single storey building or part of building, isn't a ceiling supposed to have a fire resistance of 30 min?

I believe that's correct. However there is evidence that downlighter holes in a typical ceiling (plasterboard and solid rectangular joists) don't reduce the fire resistance to below 30 mins. See the "TTL tests" in here: https://www.the50plus.co.uk/tech_support/Ceiling_downlighter_regs.pdf


BS 7671 does have requirements for maintaining the prescribed fire-resistance of building elements - so any breach of that would be codeable on an EICR - however the regulation usually quoted (527.2.1) seems only to apply to penetrations made for wiring systems so would not seem to cover holes made to house other equipment (e.g. recessed luminaires) where the wiring system doesn't end up passing through the hole. I can't seem to find an equivalent one that obviously covers our situation, which feels like something of an omission. Perhaps it's intended to be covered by the regulations regarding the selection of equipment (133.3 perhaps) - e.g. where we're making a hole in a 60 or 120 minute rated ceiling then we need to pick an appropriately rated downlighter or provide 'adequate further protection'.


  - Andy.

Thank you for your replies, some interesting comments.


Regards


F

No need to worry about holes in a ceiling between the ground floor and the 1st floor as there is already a stonking great hole already in the form of a staircase to act as a very good chimney for flames and hot gases to rapidly rise up.

John Peckham:

No need to worry about holes in a ceiling between the ground floor and the 1st floor as there is already a stonking great hole already in the form of a staircase to act as a very good chimney for flames and hot gases to rapidly rise up.

You're upstairs in bed and the fire alarm goes off. Damn and blast, the hall, stairs and landing are full of smoke, so you shut the bedroom door again. Now what? You call the fire brigade and with luck, they will turn up within the half hour that normal doors and ceilings will allow.


Step-daughter and husband, who are doing a self-build (electrics by guess who?) tell me that the building control people are very particular about doors and ceilings and their fire integrity.

Must be something special about the build of your daughters house or (not for the first time) building control are making it up as they go along.


Some modern open plan houses don't have doors, and some with the trendy warehouse look, don't have ceilings with nice surface run galv conduit all over the exposed boards.


Have the doors in your daughters house have self closers, intumesant strips and smoke seals? What are the fire ratings for the doors?

Better put a phone line into the bedroom then to make that call. Might be more use to have an opening bedroom window.


Normally when we get beyond jumping out of the windows, i.e. 3 stories or taller, then we need to look for  fire doors to the stairways. LABC doc on loft conversions and fire proofing of stair ways  One solution is to make the top floor be 30min resistant compartment to a fire on the lower floors, other methods include sprinklers, second stairways, and more complex alarm arrangements.

Of course if modern houses had floor joists of the traditional pattern being an 8  by 2 or 10 by 3 inch slice of tree depending on the span, instead of the modern fad of some origami structure of a vertical thin blade of chip board and a couple of bits of wood that look like roof battens to make an I beam, the the floor would be fine in a fire for half an hour  even without the ceiling, so some of the newer advice is a necessary  reaction to new building techniques with less strength in reserve.