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Double wound safety transformer for EV supply.

Hi everyone, I have only posted once before so thanks to anyone who replies!


I am following on from the earlier "70 volt PEN conductor not allowed to exceed post", and looking into supplying a client with an electric vehicle power supply from a three phase isolating transformer BS 7671 722.413 (1.2): " The circuit shall be supplied through a fixed isolating transformer.."


The general consensus seems to be that an external IP box with an RCD (Type B) and a tethered lead is the standard to follow, and this may be the only option with a 230 volt domestic supply, but why not use a 3 phase 400 volt step down or tapped, safety double wound isolation transformer in a standard 100 -200 ampere or above industrial units/sheds?

( Subject to load and diversity).


The answer often stated when I have asked sparks/engineers is that in-rush current are too high but a type D CB BS 60898 will 'let through' the in-rush ( the transformer manufacturer agrees), and will still give at 5 seconds- (final circuit exceeding 32 A) 0.44 ohm EL ( 10oC) , so is achievable in many situations local to Birmingham.


I was then going to run a fused cable out to an external isolated IP 65 box with a Type 2 socket to IP44 or above ( 722.55.101).


Isn't it better to engineer a solution to the upcoming electric charger deluge, rather than buying (insert well known manufacturer name here), and lots of single phase loads usually dumped onto L1?


I would be interested in any thoughts or problems you may consider....





Parents

  • AJJewsbury:




    Interestingly no one has suggested a reason why a charging RCD should be DC sensitive.



    From what I've been able to gather, it's not safe (at present) to assume that there's any galvanic isolation between the AC mains supply and the vehicle's propulsion battery & associated circuitry when on change - indeed it seems that at least one current model re-uses the charger power electronics in the power train (I'm guessing during regenerative breaking) so it's all quite tightly coupled together. It seems they don't use the traditional chassis return for the d.c. side (at least not for the propulsion system) but as usual with vehicle electrics there's only single insulation between the internal wiring and chassis. While on charge the vehicle's chassis/bodywork is likely to be connected to the supply's protective conductor. So, as one example, a single fault from say the battery circuit (at perhaps a few hundred volts d.c.) to the chassis, while on charge from a conventional TN or TT supply, would potentially mean a d.c. fault current flow from the battery, to bodywork, via the protective conductor to the EVSE and hence via the means of earthing back to the supply N point and then along the N back through the vehicle's charging circuit to the battery -ve. That d.c. fault current would be flowing through the N side of any RCDs within that loop - both on the EVSE circuit and upstream which may also protect other circuits - potentially blinding them (D-loc style) to any imbalance. Similarly faults from within the charging circuit or elsewhere in the vehicles' wiring could mean pulsed rather than smooth d.c. or at a whole variety of driving voltages.


    As I have pointed out in the Forum previously, it's as much to do with the signalling between vehicle and charger, which uses the protective conductor (and passes DC currents - pulsed and smooth).


    Quite simply, if there's a N-E fault, this DC current may be shared between N and E (definitely will be in TN-S and TN-C-S systems).

Reply

  • AJJewsbury:




    Interestingly no one has suggested a reason why a charging RCD should be DC sensitive.



    From what I've been able to gather, it's not safe (at present) to assume that there's any galvanic isolation between the AC mains supply and the vehicle's propulsion battery & associated circuitry when on change - indeed it seems that at least one current model re-uses the charger power electronics in the power train (I'm guessing during regenerative breaking) so it's all quite tightly coupled together. It seems they don't use the traditional chassis return for the d.c. side (at least not for the propulsion system) but as usual with vehicle electrics there's only single insulation between the internal wiring and chassis. While on charge the vehicle's chassis/bodywork is likely to be connected to the supply's protective conductor. So, as one example, a single fault from say the battery circuit (at perhaps a few hundred volts d.c.) to the chassis, while on charge from a conventional TN or TT supply, would potentially mean a d.c. fault current flow from the battery, to bodywork, via the protective conductor to the EVSE and hence via the means of earthing back to the supply N point and then along the N back through the vehicle's charging circuit to the battery -ve. That d.c. fault current would be flowing through the N side of any RCDs within that loop - both on the EVSE circuit and upstream which may also protect other circuits - potentially blinding them (D-loc style) to any imbalance. Similarly faults from within the charging circuit or elsewhere in the vehicles' wiring could mean pulsed rather than smooth d.c. or at a whole variety of driving voltages.


    As I have pointed out in the Forum previously, it's as much to do with the signalling between vehicle and charger, which uses the protective conductor (and passes DC currents - pulsed and smooth).


    Quite simply, if there's a N-E fault, this DC current may be shared between N and E (definitely will be in TN-S and TN-C-S systems).

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