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Plastic wall plug alternatives

Nathan Rose
Hi all, 


Just wondering what people are using instead of the good old fashioned plastic wall plug? I’ve got a run of swa to pull in and am looking for something to meet the new regs. 


Ive seen the dewalt wall dog screws but have seen mixed reviews about them. 


Thanks


nr316
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  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Have tried metal wall plugs and just couldn’t get on with them....


    a brown plug and 2 inch screw should withstand in a fire , at very least until the fire services have evacuated 


  • 0
    You could always go retro.
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-BOX-100-NOS-GENUINE-FIBRE-RAWL-PLUGS-BOXED-1-1-2-x-10-RAWLPUGS-FIBER-BLUE-/252803530531
  • 0
    I have my own theory about plastic wall plugs in fire. First we were told they were OK, then we were told that during a laboratory fire test they quickly failed. However the lab test had the cables supported from the ceiling rather the walls - so the fixing holes were vertical and gravity was acting directly to pull the screws out. When in horizontal walls in walls, gravity isn't acting in the same direction at all.


    So I suggest a simple test - push the screw (complete with cable clip and cable) into the hole in the wall without a plug - if it stays there on its own (which I suspect it will most of the time, especially if the screw is a reasonable length) then go ahead and fit it using a wall plug as normal - since it should stay there just the same should the plug melt or even completely burn away during a fire. Of course without the plug there's little resistance to the cable being pulled away from the wall, so no good for normal service  - but we're not required to ensure the cables are kept completely secure during a fire - just to prevent collapse (i.e. being pulled vertically downwards by gravity).


       - Andy.
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member

    wallywombat:

    In a fire, plastic wallplugs quickly lose their strength. If there is any significant load on them, they will fail.


    Also, the regs don't just protect the people evacuating, they're there to protect fire fighters, who may enter rooms that are well cooked and filled with smoke. You really don't want dangling and possibly live cables then.




    I’ve never come across things falling off walls due to the rawlplugs melting in a fire and I’ve been many fires.

  • 0

    Fitzy71:



    I’ve never come across things falling off walls due to the rawlplugs melting in a fire and I’ve been many fires.


     




    So were you a firefigher or an arsonist in a former life??? :-)

  • 0
    here is a link to an 'experiment' report that some will have seen already and it was focussing on ceiling mounted specifically:

    www.bre.co.uk/.../FI---Cables-and-support-fixings-experiments.pdf


    "For the first experiment the cable supports were fitted by the contractor who erected the rig. The cablesupports for the second experiment were fitted by BRE Global staff using the same plastic wall plugs asfor the first experiment since they remained undamaged. "


    The above extract (pg 6 on my pdf viewer) seems to imply that the fixings went through fire experiment 1  and then reused in fire experiment 2 as they remained *undamaged* during the first !


    I tend to think that ceiling mounted *might* require more consideration with additional more robust support ie not using plastic plugs as sole means, but wall mounted plastic plugs should be fine. 


    The idea is to try and not route through escape routes in any case isnt it - well that might be easier in new builds.
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    The "industry" has come together and stated that correctly selected and installed plastic wall plugs are fine.

    Those organisations agreeing to this are listed on this web page:
    https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/professional-resources/wiring-regulations/

    The actual statement is on this web page toward the bottom Q1.129
    https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/professional-resources/wiring-regulations/new-rewired-and-similar-installations/

  • 0

    ietmgreen:

    I recently used DeWalt wall dogs to secure fire-rated black P clips  made by SWA.   https://www.swaonline.co.uk/fire-safety-product-range/firefly-cleats

    The combination worked well for fixing 4mm SWA into breeze block  crossing over a garage door entrance about 5 metres wide.

    Regards,

    Mike.




    Before using the metal P clips and Wall Dogs, I went through all the pro and cons and ways of minimising the cost of complying with the new regulation.

    In the end, I decided that for the small extra expense ( compared to the overall project) , I would use metal P clips throughout and avoid plastic wall plugs.

    Once through the pain barrier,it's so much more  straightforward, simple and, without question, complies with the requirements. 

    Regards, 

    Mike.  

  • 0

    The idea is to try and not route through escape routes in any case isnt it



    It was just escape routes under the 17th (although BS 7671s definition of an escape route was pretty wide) - now under the 18th it's everywhere, not just escape routes.

      - Andy.
  • 0

    AJJewsbury:




    The idea is to try and not route through escape routes in any case isnt it



    It was just escape routes under the 17th (although BS 7671s definition of an escape route was pretty wide) - now under the 18th it's everywhere, not just escape routes.

      - Andy.

     




    Note 1 of the Reg. led me to mention the escape route comment specifically, but I agree of course.

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