Plastic wall plug alternatives

I've had generally good experiences with wall dogs (*), but they only come in one length, so are only suitable for attaching directly to brick/whatever without any intervening plaster; and only for attaching thin things (e.g. back of trunking, backbox etc). They are unlikely to be suitable for cable cleats which have the screw head distant from the wall.


(*) with the occasional failure to grip properly when screwing in, you can just drill the hole a bit wider and put in a wall plug as normal, relying on not every screw needing to be fire resistant.

just use rawlplugs, in the event of a fire, everyone should be out of the building by the time they’ve started to melt, anyway the plaster or wall would’ve given way before the rawlplugs fail.

wallplugs (as they are buried in the fabric) are fine as far as I am aware.

In a fire, plastic wallplugs quickly lose their strength. If there is any significant load on them, they will fail.


Also, the regs don't just protect the people evacuating, they're there to protect fire fighters, who may enter rooms that are well cooked and filled with smoke. You really don't want dangling and possibly live cables then.

I recently used DeWalt wall dogs to secure fire-rated black P clips  made by SWA.   https://www.swaonline.co.uk/fire-safety-product-range/firefly-cleats

The combination worked well for fixing 4mm SWA into breeze block  crossing over a garage door entrance about 5 metres wide.

Regards,

Mike.

Deligo HM4845 are an alternative to the wall dog but I think only do countersunk head.

Right then - what is the definition of 'premature collapse' in 521.10.202 ?  What authority states plastic plugs buried in masonary/plaster properly installed (protected by the actual support it is fixing etc) on a wall, or a ceiling even, does not meet that regulation !


It's another 'scary' Reg open to interpretation and application with another round of project fear of ' well wait till you get into court'.


Unless an authority states otherwise on the use of such things and 521.10.202 (or Building Regs - which I have not checked admittedly) reflects that...who is to say.

Plastic wall plugs have a metal screw travelling inside the length of them, quickly conducting heat from the room and softening/melting the plug.


Premature collapse just means that the cable supports shouldn't collapse before everything else. So for example if a doorway hasn't collapsed yet, cables running above that doorway shouldn't be hanging down yet.

These metal plugs are available but I haven't  tried them.
https://www.toolstation.com/fischer-fmd-metal-expansion-plug-fixing/p23380?store=R7&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=googleshoppingfeed&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxYLoBRCxARIsAEf16-saNHV8R7ZzlVrHCYwDBP1RNGd6bwCvFxh2j2-phHM2kcRpomuMyA8aAq1nEALw_wcB


Regards,

Mike.

With respect to any considered approach,  there may well be various definitions and various opinions, but where in the Reg does it state plastic plugs as fixings buried in the masonary *do not comply* with that Reg. It doesn't.


Would it be unreasonable to think that it is all about not collapsing to soon to let people get out safely. If referring to the firefighters, are they in there to only ensure folk get out or are out - for health and safety one would not imagine a firefighter remaining in a building that was so hot on fire for any other purpose.


It may be that plastic plugs in masonary walls are found not suitable - and it may be that its best to do everything possible to ensure no collapse. Fair enough. 


Then of course and as an aside, you have the DIY folks who just carry on as best they can. :-)