Rules and Guidelines
Want to participate in the discussions? Please read our Community Rules and Guidelines. Need some help? Visit Support and Answers.

  • State Not Answered
  • Locked Locked
  • Replies 140 replies
  • Subscribers 32 subscribers
  • Views 16146 views
  • Users 0 members are here
Options
You may also be interested in
This discussion has been locked.
You can no longer post new replies to this discussion. If you have a question you can start a new discussion

What is the best way to wire ceiling lights?

Arran Cameron
The ceiling rose junction box with its loop-in wiring is now really showing its age and is no longer a practical (or even safe) installation for most residents who wish to install fancy light fittings. It is still, however, the most common arrangement for new build houses and rewires, probably as the result of the electrician's training and how they consider it to be the norm or they cannot think of (potentially better) alternatives.


So, what is the best way to wire ceiling lights? Should neutral wires be taken to the switches or not?
  • 0
    One of the advantages, as far as TV aerial guys are concerned, is that you can dog the wires of the TV amplifier into the back of a bedroom light fitting, not so for an electrician who is fault finding.


    These days it is likely to be a Bluetooth speaker above the bathroom that is dogged into the back of the light fitting, having the speaker coming on and going off with the bathroom light could be advantageous, however only being able to watch TV in a house whilst a bedroom light is on would not be.


    Burglar alarm guys also regularly connected into the lighting circuit in the loft and dropped a supply into the airing cupboard, they tend to be less than impressed when they don’t find a permanent live in a light ceiling rose. 


     Andy Betteridge
  • 0

    Sparkingchip:


    Burglar alarm guys also regularly connected into the lighting circuit in the loft and dropped a supply into the airing cupboard, they tend to be less than impressed when they don’t find a permanent live in a light ceiling rose.




    That's why I hold the view that there should be a separate circuit for a burglar alarm even if it has battery back up.



     

  • 0

    Arran Cameron:




    Burglar alarm guys also regularly connected into the lighting circuit in the loft and dropped a supply into the airing cupboard, they tend to be less than impressed when they don’t find a permanent live in a light ceiling rose.




    That's why I hold the view that there should be a separate circuit for a burglar alarm even if it has battery back up.




    That seems to be a bit of a non-sequitur.  If the alarm installers are disappointed that there isn't a nearby permanent live on a ceiling rose to steal from, they would be even unhappier if told they had to install a whole new circuit and run a cable back to the CU.

  • 0

    wallywombat:




    Arran Cameron:




    Burglar alarm guys also regularly connected into the lighting circuit in the loft and dropped a supply into the airing cupboard, they tend to be less than impressed when they don’t find a permanent live in a light ceiling rose.




    That's why I hold the view that there should be a separate circuit for a burglar alarm even if it has battery back up.




    That seems to be a bit of a non-sequitur.  If the alarm installers are disappointed that there isn't a nearby permanent live on a ceiling rose to steal from, they would be even unhappier if told they had to install a whole new circuit and run a cable back to the CU.


     




     

    Where is all this taking us? I'd have thought a decent burglar alarm system would require many wires to many places. I would expect the alarm power supply to come from a reliable source, possibly not a sub-circuit all to itself but something better than tapping into a convenient point on a lighting sub-circuit. If the installers cannot achieve this, it is a poor show, or else a Mickey-Mouse alarm system we are installing.
  • 0
    I can see an argument for not having a dedicated supply, unless the unit is capable of indicating the supply has been removed.

    For example, smoke alarms that silently switch to battery may be better on a shared low current radial such as lights, as they are then less likely to trip and then be switched off and forgotton.

  • 0
    And if the alarm system consists of separate items of equipment all wirelessly or internet connected, power will be picked up locally from numerous separate electrical circuits.


    That is the advantage of using wireless interconnected smoke alarms and burglar alarms.


    Andy Betteridge
  • 0

    I can see an argument for not having a dedicated supply, unless the unit is capable of indicating the supply has been removed.

    For example, smoke alarms that silently switch to battery may be better on a shared low current radial such as lights, as they are then less likely to trip and then be switched off and forgotton.



    Agreed. Conventional wired alarms do sort of have such a mechanism. Both the panel and the outside bell box have their own backup batteries. Once the panel's battery is exhausted it ceases to send a 'hold off' (or tamper) signal to the bell box, which then starts to sound the alarm, thinking the cable might have been cut by a ner'do'well. (Which is why you often hear alarms going off during power cuts - those are the system where the panel battery need replacing). There is a risk of course that if you're away for a fortnight and don't hear anything while both sets of batteries are running down, then there will inevitably be a gap in protection, but hopefully that'll be spotted quickly on your return if you're in the habit of deactivating the alarm every time you come home. If not, then certainly the same approach that many take for smoke alarms - i.e. piggybacking on a regularly used circuit so that any trip is quickly spotted has an advantage.

       - Andy.
  • 0

    Arran Cameron:

    The ceiling rose junction box with its loop-in wiring is now really showing its age and is no longer a practical (or even safe) installation for most residents who wish to install fancy light fittings. It is still, however, the most common arrangement for new build houses and rewires, probably as the result of the electrician's training and how they consider it to be the norm or they cannot think of (potentially better) alternatives.


    So, what is the best way to wire ceiling lights? Should neutral wires be taken to the switches or not?




    For new work neutrals are required at switches AND 35 or 47 mm deep back boxes.


    Andy Betteridge 

  • 0
    Alarms in most commercial buildings have their own dedicated supply and breaker at the consumer unit. It's acceptable to power an alarm from a ring main (many are) but powering it from a lighting circuit is highly questionable even if it has the advantage that power failures to the alarm will quickly and easily be spotted.


    If anybody moans that Surewire junction boxes are unorthodox and will potentially confuse electricians brought up on ceiling rose junction boxes with loop-in wiring, then an alarm powered from a lighting circuit will be even more confusing (and unexpected) if one causes the fault with the other unless the owner clearly explains to the electrician where the two are connected to one another.
  • 0
    After a few years electricians fail to be surprised that a alarm is connected to an lighting circuit.


    We do get caught out, for example a few years ago I wired a replacement central heating boiler and ripped out the disused central heating programmer in the kitchen and disconnecting all the cables to it.


    The next day the customer was on the phone to the plumbing company moaning that I had disconnected the cooker extractor hood, bearing in mind this job was a hours drive away I said it wasn’t really my problem, but I would call in the following week to sort it out whilst I was in the area doing another job, but I wasn’t going to spend half a day specifically going back to that job.


    The customer wasn’t very happy at being told they were going to have to wait a week, but you cannot go through life taking responsibility for everything that was done by a kitchen fitter or DIYer did many years before.


    Bear in mind if the label on the consumer unit said immersion heater, central heating and cooker hood you would be forewarned.


    Andy Betteridge

Community Rules & Guidelines