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What is the best way to wire ceiling lights?

Arran Cameron
The ceiling rose junction box with its loop-in wiring is now really showing its age and is no longer a practical (or even safe) installation for most residents who wish to install fancy light fittings. It is still, however, the most common arrangement for new build houses and rewires, probably as the result of the electrician's training and how they consider it to be the norm or they cannot think of (potentially better) alternatives.


So, what is the best way to wire ceiling lights? Should neutral wires be taken to the switches or not?
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    I've never thought of Roses as being unsafe, they seem fine until people start trying to terminate more cables into them than their design or do you mean working on them at height?


    If light back boxes are deep enough then it is far easier to work on them at virtually eye level and does mean less cables to terminate on the light fittings themselves so bringing power/a neutral to them makes sense. So many homes half recessed spots installed that look great but don't necessarily illuminate areas that well.
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    It really depends who taught you. I think its still the cheapest option for developers to provide accessible conductors for connection to various lighting accessories. Personally it is easier for retermination to provide loop in conductors at the light switches, contary to old fashioned opinion.


    Legh
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    I agree, looping in to a ceiling rose is by far the most common, and probably the cheapest. I always liked the method in a house I lived in a few years back - two large junction boxes, one for upstairs, one for downstairs. It was easy for decoration, as you could connect two rooms to one lightswitch while you were wall papering. It also gave lots of space for adding additional lights. Its downside was longer cable runs. 


    Regards,

    Alan.
  • 0

    Chivers:

    I've never thought of Roses as being unsafe, they seem fine until people start trying to terminate more cables into them than their design or do you mean working on them at height?




    Most modern light fittings are designed for a ceiling with just one cable. Rarely is a terminal strip incorporated in order to replicate the terminals in a ceiling rose. Therefore the installer ends up having to use a chocolate block to make the connections. More often than not there is insufficient space in the light fitting to contain the chocolate block so it ends up being shoved into the ceiling cavity with exposed live parts. A very shoddy and potentially dangerous arrangement.


    There is also the controversy of a permanent live terminal in a ceiling rose.



     

  • 0
    If I have to replace a ceiling rose with a stupidly designed fitting (John Lewis are the worst for supplying them) that has no real space to terminate, my favoured method is to slightly enlarge the cable hole, and make off into a small wago lighting box, which then fits back up through the hole.


    If starting from scratch, we typically now loop at the  light switch unless it's all bog standard pendants.  If I had my own choice, I'd use the RB4 option with one large junction box as mentioned above.


    One more followon question, if looping at the switch, would you fit a 3 core from switch to light, allowing for independent switching of a light/ceiling fan? or only if specified by the customer?
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    "One more followon question, if looping at the switch, would you fit a 3 core from switch to light, allowing for independent switching of a light/ceiling fan? or only if specified by the customer?"


    Depends what is likely to be further connected.

    If using a PIR switch in a bathroom then it would be the most convenient solution to connect a fan, switch and light with 3-core which makes the live and neutral loop-in available elsewhere.

    I once installed touch lighting which only required a two core cable at each switch on each floor. it actually turned out cheaper to provide 3-core cables between the switches on each floor so I made provision for the customer ignorance without the increased charges to make amendments. When the 2-core lighting version was installed the client changed her mind and wanted the standard version of light switching.

    Note the enboldened text, because that is part of domestic electrical installations....


    Legh
  • 0
    The best way to wire ceiling lights is to have most of the connections in a switch box allowing you to do most of the wiring without standing on a ladder or hop up scaffold.


    Andy Betteridge
  • 0

    Alan Capon:

    I agree, looping in to a ceiling rose is by far the most common, and probably the cheapest.




    It might be the most economical when it comes to twin and earth cable but the savings are likely to be minimal over other methods as around 90% of the cost of a new installation or rewire is labour rather than parts.


    I rewired the lighting on my house using Surewire light and switch junction boxes in a more radial than loop-in topology. It's quite an elegant arrangement with only one cable to the light fitting and one cable to the switch, but are there any better methods? It has a notable disadvantage that it doesn't supply a neutral to the switch.


    An electrician criticised my unconventional rewire with 'large' junction boxes under the landing floorboards and asked why I didn't just use loop-in wiring with ceiling rose junction boxes. I replied that I hold the view that ceiling roses should be easy for residents to replace so they should not contain a complex and intimidating interconnection of wires where connections also affect downstream light fittings as well as the one in the room. Also the potential health and safety issues with working with complex wiring at a height whilst looking at it upsidedown. He still wasn't convinced and thought that I was wasting my money on the junction boxes and an extra few metres of cable, as ceiling roses will do the job just as well, as well as confusing electricians in the future who expect to see loop-in wiring.



     

  • 0
    "There is also the controversy of a permanent live terminal in a ceiling rose."

    What controversy is that then?


    Both loop in at rose and loop in at switch have their merits and demerits. That junction box idea is OK if it is in an eaceesable place, say by a loft hatch but under floorboards is a no for easy alterations.

    Stop manufactures making daft light fittings. 4 terminals and room for three (T & E) cables should be the minimum
  • 0

    ebee:

    "There is also the controversy of a permanent live terminal in a ceiling rose."

    What controversy is that then?




    It's not obvious to installers of light fittings, in the same way that a permanent live terminal at a switch is, unless they have knowledge of how loop-in wiring is connected. There have been cases of installers of light fittings receiving electric shocks because the lighting circuit was not switched off at the consumer unit even though it was switched off at the wall switch.




    Both loop in at rose and loop in at switch have their merits and demerits. That junction box idea is OK if it is in an eaceesable place, say by a loft hatch but under floorboards is a no for easy alterations.




    The Wiring Regulations (does anybody know which edition?) do not permit a junction box with screw terminals to be installed in an inaccessable place or underneath floorboards unless they can easily be removed for inspection. I assume the same applies to chocolate blocks with screw terminals shoved into the ceiling cavity. Junction boxes with spring clamp terminals are permitted for installation under floorboards as they are deemed to be self tightening and maintenance free.




    Stop manufactures making daft light fittings. 4 terminals and room for three (T & E) cables should be the minimum




    Light fittings are now designed and manufactured for the global market rather than for the peculiarities of British wiring (which also explains why most recent models are Edison screw rather than bayonet cap) so often only have terminals for one cable rather than three. Even plenty of older British light fittings and decorative ceiling roses are no different.


    Are there any countries, other than the UK, where loop-in wiring with ceiling rose junction boxes is commonplace?



     

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