Turned up at a house today: the guy wants it rewired: The supply is an old overhead: two separate cables, but there's a hole in the neutral side of the cutout and an earth going to the existing (old , battered), fuseboard. There's no PME markings, I'm guessing just an earth attached to the neutral. but there's no way of actually knowing for sure. I rang the DNO, expecting them to confirm its TT and send one of their engineers to remove the earth, but was told " we don't know what type of supply it is: its up to you to decide, and tell us" . Thing is somebody has taken the cutout apart and done this, either the DNO, or some wiseguy? I talked to the customer about using earth rods, but what about this "earth"? Its coming out of the cutout, who's to say it can't or won't be used in future? How do I know its not been declared kosher by the supplier and i'm not just doing a load of additional work at the customers cost? I can isolate the earth into a box and put rods in but, solid floors and small concreted yard, it's not going to be simple or cheap, and i'm worried someone will come along and say its unnecessary and I've wasted the clients money. Go easy on me guys, done all my work in a big town for 15 years only ever worked on TNS and the odd PME. Now I'm out in the sticks, banging earth rods in and all, but this is a first for me.in (In the picture I've tried to attach it's the small white cable its a painted 6mm insulated green and yellow.) Any thoughts? I did wonder about ringing up and telling them its unsafe, see if I can get someone out.
Contact the DNO and remind them that it is not your responsibility to tell them, it is their statute law duty to tell you, even if they have to send someone to the property to investigate.
It sounds like the DNO are trying to duck out of their responsibilities here. Paul is correct, and has posted the statutory law which they have to follow. The law requires them to hold a record of this information, so they can tell you. If for some reason they can’t find it, then they will have to make a site visit to determine it. Call them again, and if they can’t help, remind them of their statutory duties under regulation 28 of the ESQCR. They may not like it, but they do not have a choice.
Presumably the metering services guy put the tape around the suppliers fuse and attached the warning label, I would email the photo to the DNO and ask them to inspect it and pass it as safe or replace it.
You may not get a favourable reply, but I’d still ask.
Even if the DNO confirms that the earth connection to their cable is acceptable it is still the customers responsibility to have an electrician test it to confirm it is going to provide an acceptable earth connection, their earth connections are provided untested.
However the rewire property requires a 16 mm main earth conductor and you cannot access the terminal in that particular fitting. A new suppliers cutout and fuse with a accessible earth terminal would solve several issues.
It is a shame the metering services guy put the isolation switch after the Henly block splitting the tails as it only isolates one of the consumer units.
Is the installation actually be safe with a TNCS earth? What type of property is it? Is it a domestic installation? What is the floor like? Is it a concrete floor over a polythene damp proof membrane or is it quarry tiles laid on sand and soil?
Andy Betteridge
I was typing this whilst Alan was posting, do as he and Paul says, tell them the customer needs to have the earthing arrangement confirmed and raise concerns about the safety of their equipment.
If the outdoor feed is singles, as opposed to bundled, to be PME ready, the neutrals (PENs) should have 2 crimps on each join so no single fault to danger, and as others have said, every few poles a line down the side of the pole to an electrode.
However, again as others have said, the DNO is obliged by law to tell you. They may tell you it cannot be PME, and the earth is unofficial, but at least you would know for sure.
Thanks guys, fell asleep after i posted that! I'll ring the DNO this morning and try again: its clear their answer was incorrect so I need to get hold of a different person/supervisor or engineer and sort this properly. As to the other questions, regarding crimps on the incoming neutral, type of floor etc: I've no idea, as further inspection will be required. I'll probably pop along today and have a look, see if i can locate the pole top transformer and look at the cabling, as I'm intrigued by this. But clearly, I need a definitive answer from them (Scottish Power/ old Manweb North Wales region). and I suspect, a site visit. Either that earth wire is OK but requires upgrading to a 16mm or (most likely) it needs removing and I'll need to sort my own earth out, but either way their response was clearly poor. This is their part of the installation and they clearly have a responsibility to make it safet, even if they just remove the "earth". When I ring them back I'll say that there is a dangerous wire sticking out of the cut out, that should enact a response. Asking them whether it is a supposed to be a TT or a TNCS is clearly not the way to go: lesson learned.
All that sticky tape and the labels could be simply due to the plastic rings the sealing crimp wire should go through having been broken off, rather than exposed live parts being present because the fuse holder being broken.
But unless someone takes the tape off to look the customer won’t know and it should be the DNO that takes the tape off.
The fuse should be sealed to make it safe as well as restricting abstraction.
Interesting point, Andy, re: making it safe. I am not one of those authorized contractors who has temporary DNO seals... but i DO seal any unsealed cutout fuses I find, and notify the DNO of the address. So far they've simply thanked me. But am I taking on a responsibility here? It was unsealed when I arrived (I'm a house badger primarily but with history in commercial up to 11kv).... so it was unsafe. I sealed it to prevent the harry potter living under the stairs pulling the main fuse and putting his finger in there. But if my seal fails...am I liable? If the power company (be it the DNO or supplier or even a metering person) suspect abstraction, are they gonna point fingers?
Edit: I seal them with standard stranded sealing wire, and flag seals but with no ID number or designation on them.
