Hourly rate

Back when I started work in the 70’s there were joint industrial councils, before Maggie Thatcher and the Conservatives got rid of them (political comment being relevant). 


I left school and signed an apprenticeship deed to deed to work for my Dad as an apprentice Carpenter on a CITB six month off the job course at Stourbridge College followed by day realise to complete the two years to get the craft level City & Guilds In Carpentry and Joinery ( I underlined the and as I don’t think there is such a course as such anymore). I didn’t do the advanced craft in C&J which would now be the level 3, I stopped at the craft in C&J which would now be a level 2, then did the C&G Construction Technicians parts 1 and 2 which would now be a level 3/4.


So I started work as an apprentice carpenter and was paid the BATJIC pay rates (Building and Allied Trades Joint Industrial Council), however because I was working for my Dad I was expected to do office work as well and did the payroll for the three employees of my Dad’s limited company, which was my Dad himself, me and another carpenter plus others on as as and when basis, with temporary employees going straight onto PAYE in those days with national insurance and holiday pay being accrued as stamps stuck on cards so that those who had more than one employer in a year just handed them to the new employer to work “Cards in”, which meant that if the employee only worked for a new employer for a week or so before their holiday the new employer gave them the holiday pay in full then cashed the card in from the BATJIC holiday stamps scheme. The National Insurance card was sent in at the end of the year and the employee was credited with having made the NI payments as appropriate.


The BATJIC issued rule books which set out what was expected of employers and employees.For example there was a tool list for each trade stating what hand tools each tradesman had to provide that they had to purchase themselves and make available whilst undertaking paid work for their employer, the employer did not have to help them to buy these tools, but had to pay a tool allowance to help pay for the eventual replacement that would be required as the employee was wearing their tools out doing the employers work, in addition carpenters and joiners had to be allowed half a hour a week during the paid working week to sharpen and maintain the tool they were supplying, bearing in mind that hand saws had to be sharpened by hand or taken to a saw doctor to be machine sharpened and set, there weren’t any throw away hard point hand saws.


I am going beyond what I was originally going to say.


BATJIC set out the pay rates for building workers across the UK, there were two rates, the higher rate was for London and Liverpool, the lower rate was for the rest of the UK. Liverpool was seen as having the same cost of living as London hence the pay rates were the same and higher than the rest of Northern England.


The second thing was that you went onto the full rate when you got the C&G Craft award. Now you have to remember that you could leave school at fifteen back then, my year at school was the last to have that option as it was raised to sixteen.


A first year apprentice got 50% of the full wage, a second year got 75%, then if you passed your exam you went onto the full rate, if you failed you went onto the labourers rate. 

So you could be on the full wage at seventeen of eighteen, it was also assumed that you would have passed your driving test by the time you were eighteen.


Now bear in mind that if you didn’t go into an apprenticeship you could go into a factory working on a machine on piecework, being paid per item, and you could earn an adult wage at the age of fifteen, I worked in a factory over the school holidays when I was fifteen on machines cutting and polishing half inch square metal blocks that were welded onto the internal PTO shafts of Massey Ferguson tractors, my mother said it was ridiculous paying a kid a mans wage, but as my Dad pointed out I was on piecework and the rate was the rate, it didn’t vary depending on who was doing the job.


Large building contractors had employees working on piecework had “time and motion” people, a subbie I worked for said when he worked for Wimpeys in the 70’s the carpenters were given the job of putting up a washing line post at the bottom of the gardens on a large new council estate with a line and pulley on the house, the T&M guy came and timed him digging a hole, mixing a barrow of concrete, setting the post, fixing the pulley and tie off then installing the line. That’s how it was, there was a system determining ho much people were paid.


So when guys started becoming self employed there were industry rates that guys based their pricing on, all off this went years ago, now most guys seem to just pluck a figure out of the air, they decide thy should be earning a grand a week without any real justification.


Andy B.

Back when I started work in the 70’s there were joint industrial councils, before Maggie Thatcher and the Conservatives got rid of them (political comment being relevant). 


I left school and signed an apprenticeship deed to deed to work for my Dad as an apprentice Carpenter on a CITB six month off the job course at Stourbridge College followed by day realise to complete the two years to get the craft level City & Guilds In Carpentry and Joinery ( I underlined the and as I don’t think there is such a course as such anymore). I didn’t do the advanced craft in C&J which would now be the level 3, I stopped at the craft in C&J which would now be a level 2, then did the C&G Construction Technicians parts 1 and 2 which would now be a level 3/4.


So I started work as an apprentice carpenter and was paid the BATJIC pay rates (Building and Allied Trades Joint Industrial Council), however because I was working for my Dad I was expected to do office work as well and did the payroll for the three employees of my Dad’s limited company, which was my Dad himself, me and another carpenter plus others on as as and when basis, with temporary employees going straight onto PAYE in those days with national insurance and holiday pay being accrued as stamps stuck on cards so that those who had more than one employer in a year just handed them to the new employer to work “Cards in”, which meant that if the employee only worked for a new employer for a week or so before their holiday the new employer gave them the holiday pay in full then cashed the card in from the BATJIC holiday stamps scheme. The National Insurance card was sent in at the end of the year and the employee was credited with having made the NI payments as appropriate.


The BATJIC issued rule books which set out what was expected of employers and employees.For example there was a tool list for each trade stating what hand tools each tradesman had to provide that they had to purchase themselves and make available whilst undertaking paid work for their employer, the employer did not have to help them to buy these tools, but had to pay a tool allowance to help pay for the eventual replacement that would be required as the employee was wearing their tools out doing the employers work, in addition carpenters and joiners had to be allowed half a hour a week during the paid working week to sharpen and maintain the tool they were supplying, bearing in mind that hand saws had to be sharpened by hand or taken to a saw doctor to be machine sharpened and set, there weren’t any throw away hard point hand saws.


I am going beyond what I was originally going to say.


BATJIC set out the pay rates for building workers across the UK, there were two rates, the higher rate was for London and Liverpool, the lower rate was for the rest of the UK. Liverpool was seen as having the same cost of living as London hence the pay rates were the same and higher than the rest of Northern England.


The second thing was that you went onto the full rate when you got the C&G Craft award. Now you have to remember that you could leave school at fifteen back then, my year at school was the last to have that option as it was raised to sixteen.


A first year apprentice got 50% of the full wage, a second year got 75%, then if you passed your exam you went onto the full rate, if you failed you went onto the labourers rate. 

So you could be on the full wage at seventeen of eighteen, it was also assumed that you would have passed your driving test by the time you were eighteen.


Now bear in mind that if you didn’t go into an apprenticeship you could go into a factory working on a machine on piecework, being paid per item, and you could earn an adult wage at the age of fifteen, I worked in a factory over the school holidays when I was fifteen on machines cutting and polishing half inch square metal blocks that were welded onto the internal PTO shafts of Massey Ferguson tractors, my mother said it was ridiculous paying a kid a mans wage, but as my Dad pointed out I was on piecework and the rate was the rate, it didn’t vary depending on who was doing the job.


Large building contractors had employees working on piecework had “time and motion” people, a subbie I worked for said when he worked for Wimpeys in the 70’s the carpenters were given the job of putting up a washing line post at the bottom of the gardens on a large new council estate with a line and pulley on the house, the T&M guy came and timed him digging a hole, mixing a barrow of concrete, setting the post, fixing the pulley and tie off then installing the line. That’s how it was, there was a system determining ho much people were paid.


So when guys started becoming self employed there were industry rates that guys based their pricing on, all off this went years ago, now most guys seem to just pluck a figure out of the air, they decide thy should be earning a grand a week without any real justification.


Andy B.