Ring Main Joint Box

Bye heck! This is like drawing hens teeth.


From the new box the cable will run 600 mm horizontally, then it will join the original drop from the ceiling.


If someone decides to put a shelf up above the sink how will they know where the original drop comes down the wall with the original socket location having been concealed?


It doesn’t comply with the regulations.


Andy Betteridge

An accessory, or blanking plate, fitted directly above the hidden box at high level would define a zone below it. Ideally with the plaster cut away to expose the cables, to ensure exact location and avoid screwing into them.

As for earthing the old box, depends on your method of maintenance-free connection, the screw terminal for earth connection in the box would not be maintenance-free. I might not bother tbh, it would be a random bit of metal behind tiles, unless there is earthed metal conduit in the drop which acts as a cpc.

We have a mentioned maintaining the zones.

Some of us might have assumed that another point also indicates the existing vertical zone prior to ammendment by this addition.

Some of us might have assumed it was the only point therefore that zone will be lost.

Clearly keeping a redundant socket or changing to blanking plate indidcates existing vertical (and horizontal) zones therefore has its merits.

Ideally of course reroute the cables from above is what most of us would do, zone maintained.


Plus, as does happen, a blanking plate runs a real risk that years later A.N. Other removes that plate and plasters in therefore removing the zone.


Another one to watch for in kitchens is that whilst zones should be obvious above worktops but often are not below - if there is a point under the worktop fed vertically to ceiling and there is no point corresponding above worktop in that zone then the setup rather depends on whether the one below is hidden from normal view (washer/dryer etc) or is easily seen because there is only a veg rack there or it`s an open space say.

Not all DIYers would pop the washer out to take a glance. Fitting a steel cutlery rack could invite disater

Blank plate at old socket position and earth the existing metal box, why not? The blanking plate will indicate the vertical and horizontal hidden cable runs in the wall  plaster. 


Z.

Make all hidden cable runs blinkin OBVIOUS so that nobody drills through hidden cables in the future. Look at this please...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1473919/MPs-daughter-electrocuted-in-botched-fitted-kitchen.html


Z.

PG:

Thanks - I think that I may switch to the silicon seal of a blank plate proposal.

Consider also new tiles at blank plate. Silicon seal is usually a bodge by a tiling amateur, and a pita when fault finding or at an inspection. I was in house the other day.(sockets tripping), where the customer didn't want sockets removed for fault finding, because of sealant and a gap around tiles. A sharp knife solved the problem, to his satisfaction!


Also same house - 2 twin 13A spurs above the kitchen top sealed in, and a metal single gang box mounted on top of another twin metal box, for a flexible cable to the microwave in front - no plug! Customer seemed pleased with the new kitchen .......... I made an excuse and ............. ran away..  


Jaymack


Jaymack.

The socket that is going  to be removed - is it currently fed from a vertical cable, or a horizontal one ?   If horizontal, extend horizontally, if vertical extend vertically.

Anything with a change of direction however needs to be arranged so that both the new and the original cables follow a line of least surprise for anyone drilling for a knife rack or whatever at a later date. A hidden turn is a drilled cable waiting to happen.

2. Should the original back box be left  unearthed?

The basics of shock protection will still apply - which in effect means you need to provide either earthing or double/reinforced insulation. Unless you're going to make a claim on the (possibly damp) plaster to provide a reliable second layer of insulation (I wouldn't be comfortable doing so) then shock protection needs to be provided at the box. So either double insulate all live conductors within the box (and to my mind a couple of wraps of tape isn't anything like sufficient for that - we should be thinking of something more akin to a cable sheath as a minimum - let alone the problem of the inevitable gaps where the cores emerge from the cable sheath), subsitute both box and lid for insulating versions, or solidly earth both the box and lid (if metallic).


+1 for the earlier comments about the origianl cable drop being outside of zones if the original socket is removed and/or made invisible.


  - Andy.