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Earthing neutral

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
Why is it forbidden to earth the neutral at the source of a 3 wire system? 


  • It's certainly not forbidden to link the N to earth - it could hardly be a TN system if it was.

    The diagram you linked to is specifically for multiple sources (nothing really to do with the number of wires - it's just an example - the preceding diagram in appendix 9 in BS 7671 shows the same arrangement for a 4-wire system) - it's just making the point that since you must have exactly one N-earth link in an entire TN-S system, that one link must be common to all the sources. You can't have each source having its own link otherwise you'd have multiple links and so N currents could flow through multiple paths (both N and PE) to each star point and you'd effectively end up with a TN-C-S system not a TN-S system.


    You could have a N-PE link at just one of the sources and not at any of the others - but that can give problems if you ever need to take that particular source out of service for any reason (due to failure, maintenance or upgrade for example) especially if you need to keep the rest of the system running (a common reason for multiple sources is security of supply). Similarly you could have multiple links but switched via some controlling mechanism so that exactly one is closed at a time - but that can get complicated. Much simpler just to have one link, positioned after all the sources, but before any of the loads.


      - Andy.



  • Much simpler just to have one link, positioned after all the sources, but before any of the loads.




    Unless those sources are require an earth for safety reasons - such as at a substation with the transformer primary at HV - in such  a case the secondary earthing link cannot safely be on the load side of any kind of switch, as if left to its own devices it may float up to some sort of mean of the primary voltage . This is more of a problem on single and split phase.

    In such a case we quite often do really have 2 NE links, that may be in parallel, but arrange the path that may be shared to be short and fat enough that the full current of both sources could if need be be carried by any one link. Parallel transformer secondary windings are not that common but where it is needed, that is the easiest approach as the design of switched links requires serious thought about credible failure modes, and to be sure all of them are handled.


  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    But how would current flow if there are no line to neutral connected loads? The diagram says "TN-S without the neutral distributed" and that is how I plan on implementing it.


    I want to earth at both source and the gear, so 3 earth connections. The gear's PE bar will take on the extranious bonding of gas, water and structural steel.

  • But how would current flow if there are no line to neutral connected loads?



    You can connect single phase loads between any two different lines if you wish - they don't have to be connected L-N - that's just a usual convention. In the HV distribution world (in the UK at least) everything is connected between lines - N is never distributed. Because the three lines are out of phase with each other there's always an a.c. voltage difference between them. Almost all 3-phase loads are electrically just single phase loads internally (e.g. individual windings on a 3-phase are just a simple coil with one wire at each end)- even if they're mechanically linked.


    You just need to be careful about voltage ratings - if you have a 230/400V 3-phase system then single phase loads connected between lines will see 400V rather than 230V - so equipment would be need to be suitably rated. Or you could have a 3-phase system with 230V between lines (so each line would be about 132V from Earth or N).


        - Andy.
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    I know :) 138/240Y


    But why do the regs mandate the PE be treated like a PEN? This has me lost.
  • In the clip you have attached it is the section from either transformer to the point of junction that has to be treated as PEN.

    From either point A via B to C . And from point C you could take both PE and an N  (not shown here ) to any loads if you need it.

    So what do we mean by "treated like a PEN" -

    1) sized to carry the full phase  current if required - seems reasonable, as in fault it may need to.

    2) Double crimp or dual bolted joints as loss of connection is a serious matter - again reasonable - think what happens if there is a break on one side and not the other - in the lives you may put fuses or switches if required, and in the N after the PE separation, but not before.

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    See note B, the regs explicitly mention the function of this conductor is like a PEN.
  • Can you clarify what you are asking ? I think we are at cross purposes in some odd way- I see nothing wrong with that statement ; it is true and I'm struggling to see why you seem to be worried by it. Actually the whole length a to a behaves as a PEN - in that it may carry both neutral current and fault current.
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    But it isn't a PEN though. Its a line to line system, yet the regs want to treat it as though it was line to neutral connected loads. Why must a PE be treated as a PEN when said PE/PEN will not carry any current other than fault current?
  • Confused by that, what do you mean by 'line to line' in this context ?  I agree if the loads are 3 wire they are connected line to line but as the transformers/ gensets  are stars, not deltas they do have a neutral centre.

    I see a neutral to neutral link between the two transformers or gensets, which as per the drawing at least, without the context of the rest  of the document, could either be run in parallel or back fed.



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