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Audio Public Address Sound System.

Zoomup
Mornin' All,

                    I need some advice please.


Imagine a portable sound system as used by travelling musicians, rock guitarists or others with electric instruments. There will be a large mixing desk, and amplifier and speakers. All is well if the musicians with electric instruments only plug their 1/4 inch jack plugs into their instruments when the mixer sliders are down (off) so as not to cause a big pop or bang through the speakers. Sometimes though the jack plugs are unplugged from the instruments when the mixer sliders are up (on) and a terrible sound results from the speakers.


Is there a "magic box" that can be inserted in line with the audio leads from the instruments to the mixer that AUTOMATICALLY prevents this unwanted loud noise problem?


Thanks,


Z.
  • 0
    Of all the questions....

    This  should not really be a problem, but there are a few things which can help:

    1. Use DI boxes with the ground lift activated and balanced inputs.

    2. Set the mixer input gain correctly and use the input compresser / limiter at just above the normal playing level in limit / sharp knee mode

    3. Train the musicians properly so that they don't pull plugs out while performing, and charge them a bottle of something if they do!

    4. Stick any loose cables in place with gaffer tape, or locking clips if fitted.

    5. Be ready to use the channel mutes quickly.


    You may need something a bit more fancy by way of mixer etc. for the above, depending on what you have at present.  However this is all part of the skillset of the "sound guy"


    Happy new year

    David
  • 0
    I think Dave Z got it covered.

    After all it`s like someone asking you to create an installation where anyone can plug anything(s) at anytime including a 10.8KW shower, cooker and welder into a lighting circuit
  • 0

    davezawadi:

    Of all the questions....

    This  should not really be a problem, but there are a few things which can help:

    1. Use DI boxes with the ground lift activated and balanced inputs.

    2. Set the mixer input gain correctly and use the input compresser / limiter at just above the normal playing level in limit / sharp knee mode

    3. Train the musicians properly so that they don't pull plugs out while performing, and charge them a bottle of something if they do!

    4. Stick any loose cables in place with gaffer tape, or locking clips if fitted.

    5. Be ready to use the channel mutes quickly.


    You may need something a bit more fancy by way of mixer etc. for the above, depending on what you have at present.  However this is all part of the skillset of the "sound guy"


    Happy new year

    David




    Thanks David, I will take your advice onboard. As the "sound guy" is the lead guitarist he is not always fully controlling the mixer, and the musicians are amateurs not professionals, also some are guests and are not properly trained in plugging and unplugging etiquette.  So isn't there an inline idiot proof box that will automatically prevent horrible noises when jack plugs are removed?


    If I am playing my electric violin and I wish to unplug from the main mixer and plug into my own personal combo amp I have no control at my end of things. How can I change over and not make horrible noises through the main speakers? Is there anything that I can do at the instrument end whilst the main mixer fader is up?


    Thanks,


    Z.


     

  • 0
    I suspect that the answer is "no" and I doubt that you would have much success in training good working practice.


    An everyday example ...


    A 3 kW electric heater is plugged into a socket which you want to use. Do you:


    (a) switch off the heater, switch off the socket, and remove the plug?

    (b) switch off the heater and remove the plug?

    (c) just pull out the plug?
  • 0
    OK Z, you have to go to the next stage. In reality the sound guy is as important as all the players (although some are not treated as such and are often seen as unnecessary by amateur groups) and can have a huge influence on the overall performance. There should be no need to unplug your "electric" violin, if you play more than one instrument some adjustment may be needed, and the best option is a switch which shorts out you instrument microphone, or if it is phantom powered shorts the two signal conductors together. This should be electrically silent, just stopping the mic from picking up the stage sound.


    However in the general case I would suggest you find someone who can be your sound mixer, he/she will probably be musically trained or knowledgeable and will work on making your band sound similar in each venue as well as dealing with changing instrument levels and the musical balance as it changes through various pieces from an artistic viewpoint. This process makes all the difference, even with a simple Ceilidh band for barn dancing. As far as equipment goes you may find that a suitable person already has something like an M32 (or cheaper X32) digital mixer which they will provide saving you money for the modern sophistication and a lot of facilities you probably don't have (including the effects and compressor/limiters etc referred to above. I can think of nothing automatic which is available, but then your problem is normally minimised / avoided as  I suggested above. The M32 does have several automated features which might help you, but one would need to see the exact problem first, having done the other suggestions.


    Regards

    David


  • 0

    davezawadi:

    OK Z, you have to go to the next stage. In reality the sound guy is as important as all the players (although some are not treated as such and are often seen as unnecessary by amateur groups) and can have a huge influence on the overall performance. There should be no need to unplug your "electric" violin, if you play more than one instrument some adjustment may be needed, and the best option is a switch which shorts out you instrument microphone, or if it is phantom powered shorts the two signal conductors together. This should be electrically silent, just stopping the mic from picking up the stage sound.


    However in the general case I would suggest you find someone who can be your sound mixer, he/she will probably be musically trained or knowledgeable and will work on making your band sound similar in each venue as well as dealing with changing instrument levels and the musical balance as it changes through various pieces from an artistic viewpoint. This process makes all the difference, even with a simple Ceilidh band for barn dancing. As far as equipment goes you may find that a suitable person already has something like an M32 (or cheaper X32) digital mixer which they will provide saving you money for the modern sophistication and a lot of facilities you probably don't have (including the effects and compressor/limiters etc referred to above. I can think of nothing automatic which is available, but then your problem is normally minimised / avoided as  I suggested above. The M32 does have several automated features which might help you, but one would need to see the exact problem first, having done the other suggestions.


    Regards

    David


     




    Thanks David,

                            the electric violin has a small built in transducer and small pre-amp that is connected to a 1/4 inch jack socket. There is no microphone involved. The output can go to my combo amplifier or to the main mixing desk. Sometimes I have to change mid session from the main desk to the combo amplifier. I thought today that I might be able to get a small mixer and chose which input I need at the playing position away from the main desk. They are not easily available in my location. I will have to order one online I think. If I use a two channel mixer near to me I was wondering if I could choose which input to use and also I could use my combo-amp as a monitor. Sometimes I can hardly hear myself as the drums and lead guitar drown me out, and with  a violin you need to hear yourself clearly as the finger board has no frets to keep you in tune. I have heard of a micro mixer. I must investigate further.


    Z.

  • 0

    Zoomup:

    Sometimes I can hardly hear myself as the drums and lead guitar drown me out, and with  a violin you need to hear yourself clearly as the finger board has no frets to keep you in tune.




    So that'll be no ear plugs then? Tut-tut! ?

  • 0

     



    So that'll be no ear plugs then? Tut-tut! ?


     




    Queet reet lad, and no hard hat or clogs as well.


    Z.

  • 0
    There are 1/4" plugs available that automatically mute when they are removed from the instrument.  Here is an example of one from Neutrik:

    https://www.neutrik.com/en/neutrik/products/plugs-jacks/plugs/professional-1-4-plugs/silentplug


    This company can make up custom cables with the connector and the length and type of cable you require:

    https://custom-lynx.co.uk/product-category/microphone-guitar-instrument/guitar-instrument-cables/angled-jack-to-jack/
  • 0

    M. Joshi:

    There are 1/4" plugs available that automatically mute when they are removed from the instrument.  Here is an example of one from Neutrik:

    https://www.neutrik.com/en/neutrik/products/plugs-jacks/plugs/professional-1-4-plugs/silentplug


    This company can make up custom cables with the connector and the length and type of cable you require:

    https://custom-lynx.co.uk/product-category/microphone-guitar-instrument/guitar-instrument-cables/angled-jack-to-jack/




    Thanks M. that is just the sort of thing that I was thinking about.


    Z.

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