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Part E

Chris Pearson
Yes, that's part E, not L, M, or P! ?


Scenario is studding wall between a landing and a bathroom. I don't suppose that anybody in the bathroom will be perturbed by noises on the landing, but one doesn't necessarily want to hear various splashings.


So we have a 2nd floor ring final coming and going in the wall along with the lighting circuit. 


I may be a bit thick, but I don't find the Part E Approved Document easy to interpret. If any wadding is to be put into the wall, then we potentially end up with Reference Method A, in which case the 2.5 mm2 cable is downgraded to 20 A. At this stage I want to ignore the possibility that two legs of a ring should be derated due to grouping.


My feeling is that the requirements of Part E can be met without recourse to wadding, but what I would like to know is whether any of you have encountered this problem, and if so, how you have addressed it. Many thanks. ?
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    With studding it is accepted practice to put fibreglass insulation in the wall voids, but don’t over do it as it will push the plaster board out and kink the wall.


    With other types of partition walls such as laminated plasterboard (three sheets of plasterboard stuck together) , stramit (compressed straw covered with brown paper), and paramount (two sheets of plasterboard held together with honeycomb cardboard), an additional sheet of plasterboard is used to line bath and shower rooms to deaden the sounds.


    Andy Betteridge
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    Generally, I pull the horrid stuff out when routing cables and cutting in boxes in order to ensure that no derating needs to take place.

    I personally don't see the point in insulating internal walls.
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    depends rather on the stud wall - 12mm or 9mm board, spacing and interlocking of woodwork etc.

    The Gyproc white book can be downloaded from here   and has figures for attenuation for various constructions you can compare to the 45 dB figure in the AD.
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    Sheets of plasterboard are laid on floors along with acoustic matting (sheets of shredded tyres) as part of the sound transmission prevention in flat conversions with floating flooring over them, obviously it helps improve the fire and smoke protection as well.


    Don't put any junction boxes under it ? 


     Andy Betteridge.


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    I personally don't see the point in insulating internal walls.



     


     


    That is true if you live on your own, or everyone in the house goes to bed at the same time and has quiet hobbies. In a family house this is less likely.

    As an example I am  very pleased to have blockwork internal walls upstairs. This is due to my sons drum kit, and the fact that Mrs MAPJ1 gets up at about 5 in the morning when she is commuting, I have no desire to hear drumming over whatever I may be trying to concentrate on, nor be woken by the sounds of clanking about in the bathroom and so on. As it is, if the windows are open the loudest early morning sound at certain times of year is the sheep in a field about a km away. I'd be disappointed if it was the other occupants.

    It may be that if you live in the shadow of a city as well as having PME mains you develop a tolerance for more background noise.
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    mapj1:

    depends rather on the stud wall - 12mm or 9mm board, spacing and interlocking of woodwork etc.

    The Gyproc white book can be downloaded from here   and has figures for attenuation for various constructions you can compare to the 45 dB figure in the AD.




    Mike, thank you. That's rather a heavy document, but it tells me that absorption of sound can be an important element of soundproofing. I don't know what the self-builder will do (he has been stuffing loft insulation in at least one stud wall) but the obvious solution seems to be to leave out any wadding and double up on the plasterboard.

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    whjohnson:

    I personally don't see the point in insulating internal walls.




    Well, given the modern preference for open-plan living (not the case here) it seems that plenty of people can cope with other's noise.


    The point is, however, that the Building Regs require it. 

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    Chris Pearson:



    Well, given the modern preference for open-plan living (not the case here) it seems that plenty of people can cope with other's noise.



    I wouldn't have called it a modern preference. It is referenced by Flanders and Swann in their song Design for Living recorded more than sixty years ago.
    Our boudoir on the open plan has been a great success,

    Though everywhere's so open there's nowhere safe to dress.

    Alasdair

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    If any wadding is to be put into the wall, then we potentially end up with Reference Method A, in which case the 2.5 mm2 cable is downgraded to 20 A.



    So what's the problem? - since the regs changed a few(*) years back so that we only need to meet a 20A requirement for ring cables, rather than 0.67x In, can't you have a compliant installation even with thermal insulation within the stud walls?

      - Andy.
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    If you run 16-amp radials in 2.5 mm twin and earth it alleviates all sorts of issues, such as lots of insulation.


    Andy Betteridge

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