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What does happen if neutral conductor is cut or broken? Then what should be predicting the necessary measures to prevent cutting the neutral conductor?

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
What does happen if neutral conductor is cut or broken? Then what should be predicting the necessary measures to prevent cutting the neutral conductor?
  • Alex,

    I am afraid your question is too ambiguous.

    Are you referring to a single phase (live + neutral) circuit, a final circuit, a distribution circuit, a three phase + neutral circuit/distribution circuit.  The outcome could be very different in each case.

    Next are you meaning a simple break in the conductor (broken wire) or a cut which might also be introducing an earth fault? In which case is it downstream of an RCD?

    The answer could be anything from "the circuit stops working" through to "there is a loud bang as the protection operates".

    If you could explain a bit more, possibly even your reason for asking, you may get any number of people providing answers to help you out.

    Best wishes,

    Alasdair

    (Postscript during editing time: I have just realised that your question actually sounds a bit like a homework question - if it is then I should point out that this forum is not intended as a source of answers for homework, but you will find any number of contributors willing to provide exhaustive answers in order to show up teachers/lecturers....)
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member

    Alasdair Anderson:

    Alex,

    I am afraid your question is too ambiguous.

    Are you referring to a single phase (live + neutral) circuit, a final circuit, a distribution circuit, a three phase + neutral circuit/distribution circuit.  The outcome could be very different in each case.

    Next are you meaning a simple break in the conductor (broken wire) or a cut which might also be introducing an earth fault? In which case is it downstream of an RCD?

    The answer could be anything from "the circuit stops working" through to "there is a loud bang as the protection operates".

    If you could explain a bit more, possibly even your reason for asking, you may get any number of people providing answers to help you out.

    Best wishes,

    Alasdair

    (Postscript during editing time: I have just realised that your question actually sounds a bit like a homework question - if it is then I should point out that this forum is not intended as a source of answers for homework, but you will find any number of contributors willing to provide exhaustive answers in order to show up teachers/lecturers....)




    Many thanks. Please tell me if this happen in LV electrical installation.

    No no this is not homework question at all. I want to understand myself.


  • Please tell me if this happen in LV electrical installation.



    Yes, all that applies to low voltage installations.


    You might also need to consider whether the N is also acting as a protective conductor (i.e. a PEN or CNE) in which case the might be shock implications too.


      - Andy.
  • In a single phase system, if the circuit is carrying current and is suddenly open circuit, then like opening a switch, all the voltage appears across the break, and no volts across the load - but now both sides of the load are at the live voltage, so although it is off, it is not safe to stick fingers in!


    In a 3 phase system, the neutral only carries the difference of the 3 phases, so if the load is well balanced, then you can take the neutral away, and nothing much happens, until you change the load on 1 phase - then the phase to phase voltages are divided unequally and you may see one load get an under voltage and 2 get an over voltage, but which and by how much depends on the load imbalance. As fuses then blow on the overvolted phase this may get quite pretty, as switching one load off can make 1/3 of the lamps things first go dim, while all the others go bright, then some of them go off, and others that were dim then brighten up and then it all goes off, if you are lucky, with only a modest bang, and a large bill for new lamps.


    Neutral to earth shorts are  harder to detect, as when all is well they are at more or less the same voltage. But, RCDs see the imbalance in current in the L and N as a fault, and pop off, but only when the fault loop is low enough resistance, so not always, sometimes in a load dependent way  (not always your load though)- as that alters the neutral currents, and so  the the voltage drop.

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member

    mapj1:

    In a single phase system, if the circuit is carrying current and is suddenly open circuit, then like opening a switch, all the voltage appears across the break, and no volts across the load - but now both sides of the load are at the live voltage, so although it is off, it is not safe to stick fingers in!


    In a 3 phase system, the neutral only carries the difference of the 3 phases, so if the load is well balanced, then you can take the neutral away, and nothing much happens, until you change the load on 1 phase - then the phase to phase voltages are divided unequally and you may see one load get an under voltage and 2 get an over voltage, but which and by how much depends on the load imbalance. As fuses then blow on the overvolted phase this may get quite pretty, as switching one load off can make 1/3 of the lamps things first go dim, while all the others go bright, then some of them go off, and others that were dim then brighten up and then it all goes off, if you are lucky, with only a modest bang, and a large bill for new lamps.


    Neutral to earth shorts are  harder to detect, as when all is well they are at more or less the same voltage. But, RCDs see the imbalance in current in the L and N as a fault, and pop off, but only when the fault loop is low enough resistance, so not always, sometimes in a load dependent way  (not always your load though)- as that alters the neutral currents, and so  the the voltage drop.

     




    Thanks so much. Really thanks for your complete answer and explaining simply to understand. ?

  • The bad news is the small wattage LED light bulbs could still work if you lost the neutral , if there is a number of LEDs in the circuit they may flicker like  religious bulbs. The good news is that it shows that there is a small leakage (without using an insulation tester)  from neutral to earth somewhere in the circuits. I have come across this and been fooled. However detected the fault by screwdriver pocking around the consumers unit neutral bar . a slack neutral was the cause.

    a couple of decades ago every electrician carried with them a lamp holder and flex , the phone call was switched on the lights and bang , this was caused by the heat of the 60 or 100 watt lamp deter orating the corded flex usually at the neck of the lamp holder. This fault is now replaced by something much worse , (as far as cost to the consumer ) the tripping RCD or RCBO. This week in the evening my own 30mA rcd went , darkness I got the torch and switched it on , lights came on , one minute later darkness, this time RCD was up/on but no supply, noticed all the street lights were off the whole countryside was off . Candles and after while looked up on laptop to see any information , sure enough whole postcode for my area was off, they seemed to break the post code  into blocks but all was off , they said it was equipment fault , power back on after about 2 hours . Why did this fault trip my main RCD before the power failure I don't know.

    jcm

  • jcm:

    ... sure enough whole postcode for my area was off, they seemed to break the post code  into blocks but all was off , they said it was equipment fault , power back on after about 2 hours.



    Slight thread drift, but our postcode is, at least I assume that it is, smaller than the transformer's area. It is about half way down our road, but our power comes in round the corner, which has a different postcode. Our postcode only has 11 dwellings.

  • jcm:

    . . . I got the torch and switched it on , lights came on , one minute later darkness, this time RCD was up/on but no supply, noticed all the street lights were off the whole countryside was off . Candles and after while looked up on laptop to see any information , sure enough whole postcode for my area was off, they seemed to break the post code  into blocks but all was off , they said it was equipment fault , power back on after about 2 hours . Why did this fault trip my main RCD before the power failure I don't know.

    jcm




     

    Though RCDs are supposed to protect the circuits they supply, I have known them to be tripped by external faults. A friend once asked me for advice on nuisance tripping of a RCD at her home. She pointed out tree branches that had become tangled round the overhead supply wires to her house; sparks would fly during windy conditions. An electrician had said, no, RCDs detect faults in only the circuit within the house. I advised her to report the extraneous tree branches to her electricity supplier. She did, the branches were removed and the nuisance tripping stopped. 


    Faults of this nature cause dirty incoming mains supply full of high-frequency transient spikes which are not balanced between live and neutral and fool the RCD into thinking there is a fault. In your case, JCM, it sounds as though there was a fault brewing up in the distribution network, causing dirty mains which tripped your RCD (and possibly a few others in other houses, unknown to you) before the network protection tripped the substation, taking the lot out.