Ovens on cooker ccts

geoffsd:

Well, I disagree because I do not think you are correct.

If there is no difference between the internal wiring of ovens and cookers then demanding lower OPD ratings for ovens is not valid.


Nothing to do with polo wrappers, the ovens are sold in the UK therefore the manufacturer knows about 32A circuits for cookers.

Trust me, they don't ... and don't care !

Why do you not suggest cookers should be on two 16A circuits as they would be in Europe?

To design a cooking appliance that cannot be connected to a standard UK 32A circuit without extra protection is negligent.

To assume that an old electrical installation (or old electrical installation practices) may not require changes (to be re-purposed if existing circuit) for a modern appliance is, in my view, a huge step.

If we are talking about ring circuits then they know it will have a 13A plug; to demand a 16A OPD is also negligent.

As above - only we do that here,and we're not talking about an appliance that's suitable for a plug in this particular case, if it takes more than 13 A (in the UK). In the EU, a B16 is not required and they have no fuses in the plug. The manufacturer has no real choice here - an appliance that's "pluggable" in the rest of Europe is sometimes not "pluggable" in the UK because of the missing 3 A.

If we are talking about cooker circuits then they know it might be 32A which is apparent by the terminal links and instructions for cookers.

Not so, as above

You seem to be confusing the fixed wiring and appliance wiring and clutching at straws - I thought the problem was affording 16A protection on 32A circuits.

Not confused, it's clear to me.

If a cooker is alright on a 32A circuit then so is an oven. If you think a larger flex on the oven is required (it likely isn't) then that is a lot easier than down-fusing a cooker circuit - especially for two ovens.

Nope, as above, the appliance may be suitable as "pluggable" elsewhere in the EU, but not in UK because of our 13 A fuse. This drives the fixed appliance solution, and as such also drives the unsuitability of the B32 circuit (either direct on ring, or radial)

The OPD is for protecting the fixed wiring, not the appliance. If a manufacturer demands a lower rated OPD than the normal circuit OPD for the product  then it is not fit for purpose.

That's not true for fixed appliances. As I've said the standards require the manufacturer to state what they need.

There is also the point that the manufacturer's instructions often state what they believe are the regulations in the UK rather than actually required for the product.

Agreed - check discrepancies with the manufacturer or use another product.

The mention of 3A fuses and isolators which are not required for the same products in Europe being an example.

A leading bathroom extractor fan requires a 1 A BS 1362 fuse to be used in the connection unit. I know a lot of electricians don't fit anything less than a 3 A in the connection unit (if any fusing down from the lighting circuit is used at all). "Common installation practice" does not, however, always equate to "safe installation practice".

The mention of an RCBO in your previous post is also obviously not definitive - unless you think an RCCB would be unsuitable.

geoffsd:

Well, I disagree because I do not think you are correct.

If there is no difference between the internal wiring of ovens and cookers then demanding lower OPD ratings for ovens is not valid.


Nothing to do with polo wrappers, the ovens are sold in the UK therefore the manufacturer knows about 32A circuits for cookers.

Trust me, they don't ... and don't care !

Why do you not suggest cookers should be on two 16A circuits as they would be in Europe?

To design a cooking appliance that cannot be connected to a standard UK 32A circuit without extra protection is negligent.

To assume that an old electrical installation (or old electrical installation practices) may not require changes (to be re-purposed if existing circuit) for a modern appliance is, in my view, a huge step.

If we are talking about ring circuits then they know it will have a 13A plug; to demand a 16A OPD is also negligent.

As above - only we do that here,and we're not talking about an appliance that's suitable for a plug in this particular case, if it takes more than 13 A (in the UK). In the EU, a B16 is not required and they have no fuses in the plug. The manufacturer has no real choice here - an appliance that's "pluggable" in the rest of Europe is sometimes not "pluggable" in the UK because of the missing 3 A.

If we are talking about cooker circuits then they know it might be 32A which is apparent by the terminal links and instructions for cookers.

Not so, as above

You seem to be confusing the fixed wiring and appliance wiring and clutching at straws - I thought the problem was affording 16A protection on 32A circuits.

Not confused, it's clear to me.

If a cooker is alright on a 32A circuit then so is an oven. If you think a larger flex on the oven is required (it likely isn't) then that is a lot easier than down-fusing a cooker circuit - especially for two ovens.

Nope, as above, the appliance may be suitable as "pluggable" elsewhere in the EU, but not in UK because of our 13 A fuse. This drives the fixed appliance solution, and as such also drives the unsuitability of the B32 circuit (either direct on ring, or radial)

The OPD is for protecting the fixed wiring, not the appliance. If a manufacturer demands a lower rated OPD than the normal circuit OPD for the product  then it is not fit for purpose.

That's not true for fixed appliances. As I've said the standards require the manufacturer to state what they need.

There is also the point that the manufacturer's instructions often state what they believe are the regulations in the UK rather than actually required for the product.

Agreed - check discrepancies with the manufacturer or use another product.

The mention of 3A fuses and isolators which are not required for the same products in Europe being an example.

A leading bathroom extractor fan requires a 1 A BS 1362 fuse to be used in the connection unit. I know a lot of electricians don't fit anything less than a 3 A in the connection unit (if any fusing down from the lighting circuit is used at all). "Common installation practice" does not, however, always equate to "safe installation practice".

The mention of an RCBO in your previous post is also obviously not definitive - unless you think an RCCB would be unsuitable.