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Ovens on cooker ccts

Farmboy
In domestic kitchens, what do you think of the practice of connecting ovens to 32/40A cb cooker ccts via dual cooker connection outlet plates? For example, along with a 6kw hob, a 2.5kw oven is connected via a 1.5mm2 3 core h/r flex? One view is that it's acceptable because the flex can't be overloaded and the cb provides s/c protection for the flex, nor would it be coded on an eicr.


F
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    So we've got this "war zone" where the EICR guy says "not mine sunshine" and the PAT guy says "it hasn't got a plug on it, so how do I test it?" 


    As per the extract I posted above, it is PAT, just the same as all the "hard wired" hand dryers etc you see.......


    Regards


    BOD
  • 0

    Chris Pearson:




    Farmboy:




    Chris Pearson:




    Farmboy:




    Chris Pearson:

    How is pulling out an oven, which requires a degree of dismantling; or lifting a hob; or indeed pulling out any other item of fitted kitchen appliances, consistent with GN3 para 3.8.1 Scope: "... The inspection is carried out without taking apart or dismantling equipment as far as possible."?




    Is undoing a few screws in woodwork, that are only there to stop the oven sliding forward when opening the oven door, 'dismantling equipment'? Arguably not, and I would rather pull it out to see if there's some dodgy wiring in behind, than leave it due to an ambiguous guidance statement/term - and it's not doing harm, quite the opposite. Would you not take the tube out of a florescent fitting, and the lid off, to see if there's thermal damage to the wiring, because it's dismantling equipment?



    No because that is not part of the fixed wiring. However, I would probably need to take it apart if I needed to measure Zs at the luminaire.



    Sorry, do you mean the flourescent is not part of the fixed wiring? Presumably you wouldn't open the door/lid of a rotary switch disconnector to have a look inside either because it's dismantling - which isn't much different from removing the flpurescent lid. I'm not trying to be contrary, just determine where the boundary is between what is reasonable to open up to inspect, and when it's not. 


    Also, according to an article in the PE mag, reg 14 of the EWR 1989, prohibits us from measuring Zs at e.g. Light fittings because it's unnecessarily working live - we have to measure r1+r2 and add Ze instead to determine  Zs



    So are you going to open up every cooker and hob and peer inside; and let's not forget central heating boilers, immersion and storage heaters?


     




    Yes, of course, regarding the flex and connection block to the appliance, as is clearly defined in the ISI&T CoP, including gas boilers and hobs - they are not part of an eicr, and if tested as such, how are you going to determine the earth continuity resistancee to check against table 15.1 and IR value re table 15.2, especially if tested from the CU?


    F

  • 0
    Don’t you use a long wander lead to walk through the house or flat to endure there is earth continuity from the MET to everything that should be earthed, such as the screws of the plastic light fittings, metal light switches and fittings, the hob and oven; and so on?


    Once you have established that there is potentially an issue the you start dismantling to find out more.


    You are looking for problems, not rewiring the place, don’t obsess about getting a R1+ R2 measurement when R2 will suffice.


    Andy Betteridge
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    And if you have done a global insulation test at the main switch and the whole insulation gives a good reading with some appliances still connected and it all gives a good test result the jobs a good one.


    Two days ago I did a global insulation test lives to earth, the tumble dryer and beer fridge in the conservatory were still connected, these pulled the insulation value down to a fail. After investigation I noted on the EICR is that there is a problem due to condensation from using the tumble dryer in the conservatory with the plugs and appliances getting wet. When I unplugged the tumble dryer and beer fridge the insulation test result at the CU went up to over 500 from 0.17, I showed the tenant the pins were wet on the plugs, you could see the water that had condensed in there.


    A global test at the main switch is far more revealing and relevant than trying to break everything down to test, you just need to be a bit nifty at fault finding if you are looking for a problem and know when to stop and code it FI making the EICR unsatisfactory.


    As my lecturer said on my testing course, you are going to have to start taking the neutrals out and most electricians try to avoid doing that.


     Andy Betteridge 


  • 0
    I have One of these in the back of my van.


    It is better than dying trying to get a test result for an EICR, as has happened.


    I can also put my Ferret camera on the end on it and check the gutters, as I did last week trying to work out what can be done about the damp in a HMO.



     Andy Betteridge
  • 0
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    It takes inspections to a whole new level, literally!


    Andy Betteridge
  • 0

    Sparkingchip:

    Two days ago I did a global insulation test lives to earth, the tumble dryer and beer fridge in the conservatory were still connected, these pulled the insulation value down to a fail. After investigation I noted on the EICR is that there is a problem due to condensation from using the tumble dryer in the conservatory with the plugs and appliances getting wet. When I unplugged the tumble dryer and beer fridge the insulation test result at the CU went up to over 500 from 0.17, I showed the tenant the pins were wet on the plugs, you could see the water that had condensed in there.



    Was there nothing to find on inspection?
  • 0
    It helps to know there is a low insulation test result before you start breaking the installation for further inspection and testing, you also really need to know the insulation resistance of the complete installation as it will be used, rather than just the insulation values for each individual circuit.


    A couple of weeks ago whilst left home alone I spent some time watching YouTube videos by guys demonstrating inspecting and testing both for EICRs and general fault finding.


    One well known presenter was fault finding garden lighting that was tripping its RCD without using an insulation tester, he looking for then correcting obvious faults, then bang testing it. If you don’t get a test result before and after working on the installation how do you know if you have really sorted out the problem?


    It is a really clever electrician who can find all the insulation faults by inspection.


     Andy Betteridge 


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