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Wierd one....

Hi everyone. 


So,  today we installed 6 new led panels in a new ceiling grid

The panels ar Ansell panels.  They are class 2. Low volt.


Then , our plumber says he has had a shock when touching the ceiling grid and a boiler at the same time.


So, we tested the ceiling grid to a local earth.   120V AC  or   -2.9V DC......   The grid  even lights a volt stick....


After trying several ideas I eventually swapped the live and neutral connections on the primary of the led drivers.......


The result..... no measurable voltage  between the grid and earth.......


The driver and the led panel are both marked class 2 ......


How is this possible??


Is it safe?


Do I need to bond the ceiling grid?
Parents
  • yes, but the current may read quite low on a meter that is only really tested for 50Hz - unless a true RF current measurement is being made, with the right instruments, do not assume that the current really at a safe low level. A 'normal' mains frequency meter may read either high or low.


    Also the 'skin depth' for current flow  is a very funny function of frequency and which organs are involved- some part of the human body are very much better conductors than others and which bits get cooked are hard to predict in advance. There are several lifetimes work cataloguing this sort of thing. The biggest problem is that as the frequency rises there is a much lower level of nervous sensation, so you may not realise you are being shocked or irradiated at some MHz, in the same way you would feel it at say a few hundred Hz.

    There may also mean there is little or no warning muscle twitch either, but there may be other more insidious effects. At certain frequencies the hot bacon smell from burning of the skin can sometimes be the first symptom.

    I do not think that we are anywhere near that in this case, I'd be surprised if more than a few mA are going adrift - I expect the power supply to be chopping at maybe  10-200kHz and no more than 1000pF of transformer winding to winding capacitance, but at far high powers there have been some very nasty accidents with radio frequency plastic sheet welders and similar, that did not feel tingly.
Reply
  • yes, but the current may read quite low on a meter that is only really tested for 50Hz - unless a true RF current measurement is being made, with the right instruments, do not assume that the current really at a safe low level. A 'normal' mains frequency meter may read either high or low.


    Also the 'skin depth' for current flow  is a very funny function of frequency and which organs are involved- some part of the human body are very much better conductors than others and which bits get cooked are hard to predict in advance. There are several lifetimes work cataloguing this sort of thing. The biggest problem is that as the frequency rises there is a much lower level of nervous sensation, so you may not realise you are being shocked or irradiated at some MHz, in the same way you would feel it at say a few hundred Hz.

    There may also mean there is little or no warning muscle twitch either, but there may be other more insidious effects. At certain frequencies the hot bacon smell from burning of the skin can sometimes be the first symptom.

    I do not think that we are anywhere near that in this case, I'd be surprised if more than a few mA are going adrift - I expect the power supply to be chopping at maybe  10-200kHz and no more than 1000pF of transformer winding to winding capacitance, but at far high powers there have been some very nasty accidents with radio frequency plastic sheet welders and similar, that did not feel tingly.
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