Is the kitchen window a credible access to the outside for a lawnmower or car charging lead, and / or is it very near a sink ?

If there are sockets nearer doors then maybe not.


Many folk would put C3 for no RCD on sockets, assuming the rest of the ADS system is in order, unless there are also additional factors that raise the risk, only then it might become a C2.

Presumably it has been working just fine for many years ?

The proximity of the window and the possibility charging a car adds several issues, for a start off the window could be forced shut pinching an extension lead that is charging a car.


And of course the circuit cable is concealed in the wall within 50 mm of the surface, so the EICR requires a code for that as well, so we might as well consider that as well.


Andy Betteridge.

No immediate danger, so not C1.

Presumably requirements for ADS met, so not C2.

Not compliant with current edition, so must be a C3.


If it was installed to 15th Edn, RCD protection may have been required for a socket likely to be used for equipment outdoors, but a socket on a cooker switch plate would not be my first choice. Otherwise, no RCD protection was required.


Is the RCBO for the sockets a later alteration? (Not that it matters.)

Surely Andy you do not think that the Inspectors job is to stop people being stupid about everything that they do? You mention damaging the cable with the kitchen window. Why would you close the window firmly enough to damage the sheath and primary insulation, which is quite difficult to do with proper wire strippers? I have had thousands of cables through all kinds of windows, and very rarely indeed has one been damaged in the way you describe. A cable buried in a wall is certainly a problem for the inspector because he cannot measure how deep it is, so should he give it a code 2 as a back covering exercise? Whilst it is possible someone will stick a masonary nail through it, most DIYers would at least think about where to drill. There is the odd accident where people drill through buried cables, but they usually realise when bits of copper and plastic come out of the hole. Most DIYers don't have powerful SDS drills, unlike you and I, so are finding drilling quite hard anyway and will feel the change when hitting something unexpected. A code 3 at least gives a warning of a potential problem, and a note about RCD use outdoors would cover the cooker socket. Perhaps you are suggesting they will not look at the report they have paid for? The situation with rented property can also be dealt with fairly easily with the tenancy conditions eg. you may not drill holes anywhere, a common condition anyway.


As for the standard reports, my experience is that the homebuyer reports are useless and a waste of time. They are not the same as a Chartered Surveyor's report which is enforcable by law if he makes an error, they are a sop to energy saving that doesn't work very well. Certainly the energy reports I have read (quite a few) usually do not calculate the heat loss correctly, and make all kinds of assumptions which are often wrong. The most serious problem now is inadequate ventilation in many premises, most of them cheap rented housing with serious mould problems. In fact there was one on the TV yesterday on Points West. Better energy value, but serious health problems as a result. Clearly EICRs should be enforcable too, and there should be serious reprimand for improper use, because that is FRAUD.


So my report would say plug external cables into the ring as a note and a code 3 for the cooker socket and cable. The installation is safe enough if a little care is taken with use as in my report. I don't expect many people will disagree, we shall see. It is rather rare in many EICRs to find useful notes, again the problem is the quality of the inspectors.

For my money it all depends if it's used for equipment outdoors - if it was then long leads (so potentially high Zs) and significantly increased likelihood of damaged/severed flexes means that ADS might not provide protection - so that would suggest a C2 to me.


If however it wasn't likely to be used for equipment outdoors - either because it wasn't convenient (because there was a more accessible socket next to the door perhaps) or because the householder was aware of the issue and knew that the other sockets were safer to use - then I'd be happy with a C3. Maybe a note in the EICR to the effect that the cooker socket shouldn't be used for equipment outdoors wouldn't do any harm.


   - Andy.

Okay.


This is a real life scenario and it is a privately rented house, so the tenancy could change at any time, so the it is okay if the people living there know not to use it for outdoor equipment argument cannot be used and neither can it be labelled not for outdoor use in a domestic property.


But why would not complying with a requirement for having RCD protection for an indoor socket supplying outdoor equipment warrant a C2 anymore than any of the other requirements for the concealed circuit cable and socket outlet to have RCD protection? Why pick and choose when the requirements for RCD protection should be applied?


Andy Betteridge.

I should add there are probably millions of cooker switches with an incorporated socket outlet in the UK that do not have 30 mA RCD protection, I am going to have to be perfectly honest and admit that there is still one in my house. I replaced the original fuse board with RCDs for all circuits, but the cooker circuit is still connected through a separate fused switch connected through a Henly block in the tails that needs to migrate into the main consumer unit.


Andy Betteridge

davezawadi:

Surely Andy you do not think that the Inspectors job is to stop people being stupid about everything that they do? You mention damaging the cable with the kitchen window. Why would you close the window firmly enough to damage the sheath and primary insulation, which is quite difficult to do with proper wire strippers? I have had thousands of cables through all kinds of windows, and very rarely indeed has one been damaged in the way you describe. 

 

To my knowledge there is at least one recorded death due to an extension lead being shut in a window.


There was a young mother with a baby whose electricity had been cut off, a kind neighbour passed an extension lead out through one of his windows and back in through one of hers so she could plug in an electric heater and a kettle to keep her and the baby warm as well as being able to feed the baby. She closed the metal window tightly onto the extension lead to keep themselves warm and the following day was found dead having been killed by touching the window that was live with electricity due to the cable insulation failing overnight. 


Andy Betteridge

Forgive me for being harsh, but that's just plain Darwinian.

The introduction to BS 7671:2008.

I have underlined a pertinent point, we have supposedly been protecting users of electrical sockets in domestic properties from their own carelessness for twelve years.


Yet people are still indecisive about coding a socket outlet for  an EICR. How many years does it take for a Wiring Regulation to become generally accepted?


Andy Betteridge