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Help with installation / diagram

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
Hi,


I am after some help with a heated windows installation / diagram - grateful for any input.

Unfortunately, the company supplying the installion went bust and I have been left with a system that doesn't  work (incorrectly designed).

We had a local electrician do the first fix wiring based on the diagrams but he says what has been sent won't work in it's current state and he doesn't have the relevant expertise to adjust it.

We live in a rural area and electricians are not that common especially for something as complex as this.

Rather than post up the diagrams and go into too much detail initially, I just wanted to know if this is a place to ask for advice and if not could anyone point me in the right direction. e.g contact details for an electrical engineer.


Thanks.
  • 0
    Completing the installation of the two windows wired in series on the stairs that do not need a transformer would be an interesting exercise, you could at least run them as a trial to evaluate them and determine if it is worth carrying on and trying to get the rest of the upstairs windows working, then  maybe consider completing the installation of the downstairs windows.


    The two windows in series won’t need silly sized cables, out of interest what size conductors does a ten metre long circuit cable need to carry six amps at fifty seven volts?


    Andy
  • 0

    tutty:

    The meter etc are under a set of stone stairs so the tails run along to the left and through into another stone room where the consumer unit etc are housed.

    ...

    I was always under the impression I was dealing with a UK firm and a UK product but it transpired the company (Finnglass) where only acting as an agent for a company in Belgium (IQ Glass) - both have gone to the wall and I've been left with what I've got and just trying to see if there is anything I can do with it.




    I hope that those consumer tails are not too long and are supported on their way through into the other room.


    Finnglass seems to be a Finnish company. There is a company called IQ Glass in England.


    Interesting concept, but if the idea is to obtain heat from the inner leaf of a double glazing unit, that only leaves the outer leaf for insulation externally. Sadly, I don't see how it could ever have worked.

  • 0

    mapj1:

    I re-iterate the papers and the kit do not match, we should not trust either at this stage. It may be that the no of SSRs was higher as the intention was to use some sort of always-on central 3 phase transformer, and secondary side switching, and given the no, of disparate secondary voltages involved, then there have to be that many switches,

    Clearly, like the rest of it, for a UK single phase supply, that is not going to work. . . 


    . . . It pains me to say it, but are you looking at legal routes/insurance to recover any of the loss on this ?




    I would have to agree with Mike - it does look like you have been “sold a pup” and only have a small percentage of what you actually need. Hopefully you have only paid for no more than you actually have. 


    The system as designed would appear to need a three phase supply, which you clearly haven’t got. Your supply from Scottish Power is likely to be no more than 80A. You said you have underfloor heating, with the architect’s drawing suggesting the is via an electric boiler. If this is the case, you are likely to have no spare capacity for cooking or an electric shower etc. The transformer you have sent the picture of appears to have a rating of 250VA and is clearly not up to the job. 


    You do at least have separate cables to each window position, so it may be salvageable, but before you move on, you need a thorough assessment of how much you have spent to date, along with a trues assessment of what you need to spend to resolve all the issues. You also need an independent survey of the design to resolve which of your drawings (if any) are correct, and indeed whether the system once completed will fulfil your requirements when you have finished spending money on it. 


    Regards,


    Alan. 

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Hi,


    It looks like I'm fighting a losing battle then - I've tried the legal route through EEC but no joy - would need to chase them through the Belgium courts unfortunately.

    The unit that was delivered for the windows was already pre-wired ready for connections at the bottom - going by the replies it looks like this unit was not the one for these windows?

    One of the limited notes states -  'The windows need to be connected according the schema.Please note: The panes are in series with at least one other pane and sometimes two which means that each group can be tested seperately - do not connect in parallel'. The electrician did get the glass to heat up in sections (amazing how quickly the rooms heated up tbh)  but he wasn't happy with the setup (i.e wrong sensors displaying incorrect temps etc. so not switching off) plus he said impossible to connect all at once and obviously didn't want to be responsible for any issues - hence why nothing connected. 

    I was hoping in theory this would maybe allow for the glass to be connected on a room by room basis and be controlled on/off using a wireless thermostat - so in effect each room / section as a seperate installation.

    E,g Master Bedroom (Bed 2 would be similar)

    Pane 10 = 3.5a / 76v / 22 Oh / 270w

    Pane 16 = 3.5a / 76v / 21 Oh / 270w

    Pane 18 = 3.6a / 76v / 21 Oh / 270w


    Is there any feasible way to achieve this or is it time to just move on?


    Thanks one and all.


    Ian.

  • 0
    Assuming you didn’t pay on a credit card, you are probably stuck where you are. Google suggests a few firms that do this sort of thing. The best suggestion is to contact two or three of these and get them to quote for finishing the installation based on where you have got to. It is difficult to suggest things as we have never seen the windows, and do not know what electrical insulation has been used in their construction. If you apply mains to a window or several in series, you don’t want to make the frame or window handle live. It is also important to note that it appears from the photos that your electrician appears to have installed two core cables to each window, with no provision for an earth. 


    Regards,


    Alan.
  • 0
    Ian

    I don't think that these windows were ever intended to provide space heating, it would need an incredibly well insulated building to work at all. They sound like demister window ratings to me, so the sale was probably fraudulent. 750W of space heating from 3 panes in one room space is tiny, and how did you think that they gave proper heating? This much heat would take perhaps 10 minutes to just heat the air in a significant sized room through 20 degrees C, with no additional heat loss due to ventilation or construction mass at all. In an old building this would be impossible anyway, as you would need serious wall insulation everywhere to hold the overall loss to perhaps 500W total, that would need for a 50m2 total wall, floor and ceiling area, and including window losses, a value of 10W per sq m/20 degrees = 0.5W/m2/degree. This is serious insulation, and with some air change loss quite a problem to design. You could probably get this under ideal conditions with polyurethane board 100 mm thick, and no windows or doors at all! Note this is a fairly small room, and my numbers are somewhat estimated, but you get the picture. A warm window is like a warm radiator, it does not mean adequate heating.
  • 0
    Though no heat loss from the room through the windows.


    I am digging my heels in and objecting to be instructed to install panel heaters in the communal hall, stairs and landings of some flats to create a “heated shelter corridor” so the energy performance rating of a flat is increased due to having a warmer wall against the corridor. It’s absolute madness, it could result in a huge electric bill for the landlords for heat that will go to waste that will have to be paid for by increasing the rent on the flats, for a negligible improvement in the energy performance certificate rating.


    Andy B.
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Hi tutty, don’t lose hope! For some reason I can view all other info you have posted but for some reason cannot view the one entitled windowscontrol, would you mind posting it as an embedded pic? It’s the box in the edit features that looks like a couple of black triangles with a black dot , thanks. ps what general area are you in?
  • 0

    weirdbeard:

    . . . for some reason cannot view the one entitled windowscontrol . . . 




    It is a compressed file with several photos in. You will need to use WinZip to extract them. 


    Regards,


    Alan. 

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member

    Alan Capon:




    weirdbeard:

    . . . for some reason cannot view the one entitled windowscontrol . . . 




    It is a compressed file with several photos in. You will need to use WinZip to extract them. 


    Regards,


    Alan. 


     




    Thanks Alan, I have tried a few things but just get a blank screen :(

     

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