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129MWhr Battery Doing its Job Down Under.

Impressive so far,

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8082841/Elon-Musks-Tesla-battery-farm-saved-South-Australia-116-MILLION.html


Z.
  • And just what difference does that make to a grid?

  • And just what difference does that make to a grid?





    Presumably allows demand peaks to be delayed - much like the CEGB's Dinorwig pumped-storage station in principle (if with somewhat smaller capacity).


       - Andy.

  • AJJewsbury:

    Presumably allows demand peaks to be delayed - much like the CEGB's Dinorwig pumped-storage station in principle (if with somewhat smaller capacity).




    It will allow demand to be smoothed, but unlike Dinorwig it will do nothing for the stability of the system as it has no inertia. 


    Regards,


    Alan. 

  • "It will allow demand to be smoothed". OK what is the maximum charge and discharge rate? Can all the output be got in 5 minutes? Can it be recharged in the next 5 minutes? Of course not! It is nothing like the much larger pumped storage systems, which are a significant proportion of the system size (although still fairly small). If my system is say 10GW with a generator size of 500MW each, I need to be able to make up one of them as it is started. If a OCGT perhaps a few minutes. This battery probably cannot do this, at least not a large generator. It may be able to stabilise a smallish windfarm say 50MW max capacity, by watching out for those annoying wind variations over the hours, but a city going off under a fault, and being reconnected is probably well beyond its capacity. In reality it is not demand which needs to be smoothed but the ability to generate to match demand which is slightly different, that ability from wind is very variable, even with a biggish battery. A battery with a capacity of 1% of demand for an hour is certainly sailing very close indeed to grid failure.
  • "Operating via the Hornsdale Power Reserve, it has helped to restore stability to the network and lower the costs of running the power grid, according to reports."   Apparently it works like a very large smoothing capacitor in a bridge rectifier, supplying electricity when required to "smooth out" the supply. It compensates for dips in the generated supply. It operates to supply S.T.O.R. like the Welsh system....


    Dinorwig is operated not only to help meet peak loads but also as a short term operating reserve (STOR), providing a fast response to short-term rapid changes in power demand or sudden loss of power stations. In a common scenario (known as TV pickup), the end of a popular national television programme or advertising breaks in commercial television programmes results in millions of consumers switching on electric kettles in the space of a few minutes, leading to overall demand increases of up to 2800 MW.[6] 


    Z.

  • Zoomup:

    "Operating via the Hornsdale Power Reserve, it has helped to restore stability to the network . . . 




    It does not, and never will. A battery would normally be connected by a static inverter. As such, the connection provides no inertia and will not improve the stability of the system. In fact, by displacing conventional rotating plant, it may make it worse. 


    Regards,


    Alan. 


  • Alan Capon:




    Zoomup:

    "Operating via the Hornsdale Power Reserve, it has helped to restore stability to the network . . . 




    It does not, and never will. A battery would normally be connected by a static inverter. As such, the connection provides no inertia and will not improve the stability of the system. In fact, by displacing conventional rotating plant, it may make it worse. 


    Regards,


    Alan. 


     




    What exactly do you mean by "inertia"? A flywheel is not required if the transient emergency supply is instantaneous, as is that supplied by a very large battery. The reserve supply is available instantaneous. P.S. I have just come across this about GRID INERTIA, I suppose that is what you are referring to. Surely these days we can synchronise and stabilise the grid's frequency with accurate electronic systems, without the need for heavy rotating machines.

    https://www.renewableenergyworld.com/2019/10/25/grid-inertia-why-it-matters-in-a-renewable-world/#gref


    Z.

  • Extra, extra, read all about it. Russia has a very narrow band of frequency change, but please see the Q.U.B. info at about 39 minutes in to this video ref. battery storage and rapid response in case of need.


    Also, many modern appliances and chargers for computers etc. are not too worried about the precise frequency and Voltage supplied to them these days. They are very tolerant of a wider band of frequency and Voltage.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGfGoO5kVl4


    Z.
  • ........or our E.V.s could stabilise the grid or act like a house power vault.....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uz6xOFWi4A


    Z.
  • No Z  it is nothing like that simple. Let us look at this properly, using your car as an example. You are happily driving along a flat road at a constant speed and you come to a hill. More power is now needed from the engine to keep up the speed. Your engine however cannot speed up instantly because it's fuel supply is limited. To instantly change RPM takes infinite power, so it takes several seconds, as you do when you push the accelerator, to speed up. This is exactly the same as the grid, which has limited transient power available. It is true that a battery system could pretty much instantly add this power but it needs to know when to do it and how much which it gets from the frequency  change. If the frequency didn't change the battery would not supply extra power..... That is how control systems work, they need an error signal to respond.