Andy


They may tick some boxes but BS 7288 devices do not tick any of the boxes in BS 7671!

We are exploring avenues that you hadn’t even considered at the time of the original post!


One of the reasons for updating the RCD sockets and SFCU was to swap from type AC to type A RCDs.


One box ticked!


Andy Betteridge

Andy



I did not consider BS 7288 devices as they do not comply with the general requirements for RCDs  in BS 7671 and also the special requirements for RCDs in 722.531.3.101.


Why an earth would anyone think that a BS 7288 device would be suitable for the protection of a vehicle charging point if they have read BS 7288, BS 7671 in general and BS 7671 AMD  Section 722 in particular?

I was looking at it as more of a design exercise, if you write down the list of requirements the “EV charging station” with its single pole RCBO with type AC doesn’t tick as many boxes as the new version of the RCD sockets.


If someone had actually sat down and aligned the various requirements of British Standards and actually considered what uses various electrical equipment is likely to be used for and how things would be used we would not now be trying to establish if and what is suitable for use.


There is quite a selection of dedicated EV chargers and a multitude of sockets that may be used, but apparently not many of them are suitable for their intended purpose without additional protective measures being taken to ensure they are safe to use.


Joe Public with a granny lead and a car to charge will just see a socket and use it, whether it be in a house, flat, work place, caravan and camping site or whatever, without seeing any potential risk, particularly in using a socket in an “EV charging station” that is actually labelled as being suitable for electric vehicle charging.


Something needs to change, starting from the top down.


Andy Betteridge 

I think the top down bit is very good. 


The standards for EV charging are set out in BS 7671. The IET have also published a Code of Practice for EV charging installations.


The information is there for designers, installers and inspectors. 


What is missing is for people involved in the installation process to keep up to date by doing some CPD and then complying with the standards. There is a load of information on the internet or when they start again they can come along to the Elex shows and sit in on the free seminars. If they need further information they can speak directly to the IET representatives on their stand, NAPIT and the equipment manufacturers.


You said, " if you write down the list of requirements the “EV charging station” with its single pole RCBO with type AC doesn’t tick as many boxes as the new version of the RCD sockets". What were you reading for you to say that? 

I think others will argue that a truly top down approach might demand that the requirements for what sort of supply, and the level of design required for it's safety, should be firmly the responsibility of the car designers. 

I.e. force them to think beyond the connector and to shoulder the burden of the risk.


It is then only  necessary for the authors of the various local/ national/regional l wiring standards of which BS7671 is only one,  to include that  method  to get power to the car, and then DNOs,  BNOs and end users to agree to follow it.


Right now it seems that the HSE and the IET have decided that the risk of a class 1 car on a PME supply in the UK is too high,  (and I agree for what it is worth) but it also seems no-one else in the chain of design agrees so right now no organisation wants to invest in any proper engineering to solve the problem.


Or you say a car is product, and as there are standards for TVs, table lamps, radios gas bottles etc, then there should be one for cars, and car makers should follow it or take their non compliant product off the shelf.

I suspect there is no appetite for that either.

Or you say a car is product, and as there are standards for TVs, table lamps, radios gas bottles etc, then there should be one for cars, and car makers should follow it or take their non compliant product off the shelf.

Of course cars are a product, and there's a whole raft of regulations they have to meet.  Construction and Use Regulations, if nothing else.


The problem comes when nobody works out how these regulations meet up with others, such as the ESQCR.

I suspect there is no appetite for that either.


Especially when I did hear on the news today that car sales were down 44% in March compared to last March. I haven't looked to see the breakdown of type.


Regards


BOD

Is this still an evolving field, or have the standards pretty much settled down?


I have a petrol car; there are filling stations everywhere and I know that the nozzle will always fit my tank. I can go to Europe and find exactly the same petrol there. Other people with different cars can do the same.


If there are different standards for the cars, that is something for the manufacturers to sort out. I don't think that we could make current cars obsolete, so there must continue to be backwards compatibility. (If there were not, then people would not risk buying EVs.)


If the PME business just applies here, we have to sort it out, especially since Brexit. It is no use expecting the manufacturers to make UK only models - RHD/LHD is bad enough - thank God that the Japanese drive on the left!


Is the problem BS 7671? For example, were we better off with the 17th+3 liberal approach to domestic EVCPs? What has driven two changes in less than two years - surely not a spate of deaths or near misses?


What a ***'s muddle! I stand by with a spare way in my DB ready for when I can be confident that any EVCP which I might install will remain compliant for more than half a dog watch.