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TNC

Evening all.


My client has taken on maintenance at a site with private transformer feeding what appears closest to a TNC arrangement, and buried unarmoured cables. As might be expected from the opening sentence there are many other issues both in design and installation. Fortunately it’s not routinely manned.


An opportunity to replace the main switchboard has arisen, and in so doing revise the protection. On the other hand while the site owners have been strongly advised by various parties (which will include myself), it’s not in my remit to instruct complete replacement of the entire installation and I have to allow for the fact that it might not happen, at least not at the same time.


Given the increased risk of faults I would like to improve the protection. RCDs are out because they’d trip on normal neutral current... but am I right I thinking that a TP or TPN CB with calculated ground fault function (ie LSIG) and no neutral CT would act in a similar but less sensitive fashion? as most of the loads are balanced it might then be reasonable to determine a limit neutral current and then set the ground fault to above that.


Is there something else you would suggest?

If TNC could become TNS by removing some connections and converting some equipment to delta, the unarmoured cable would still remain. Given site history I’d be inclined to add a CT on the main earth conductor to a more sensitive (10s of A) earth fault relay. But while I might know, or be able to find, the electrode impedance, assuming a zero impedance fault strikes me as optimistic when trying to see if it’s sensitive enough to catch a buried cable fault. A 15Ohm phase-soil fault would leave 5Ohms for the electrode (which in this case is reasonable) to give 20A for the relay to pick up. Is that even likely?


Thanks in advance
Parents
  • First a caution - HV distribution is not my thing. But I have had a fair amount to do with gensets, large UPS and so on in the fairly recent past. Take what follows with a pinch of salt, it may contain errors.


    I'd expect at the least an HV  earth electrode for the transformer core and chassis,  though that may well not connect to anything on the secondary side. That is to trip off the HV on a primary winding to core or casing sort of earth fault. (at the other end of the HV line, the effect of a jumbo RCD is done by looking at current transformers and balance, or if the supply is small, or old, then perhaps just expulsion fuses.

     

    I'd also expect some part of the secondary side to be earthed, if not at the transformer then in an adjacent building. If this is not done the secondary voltage may well be the intended 230 or whatever between the wires,  but with both sides floating off at some fraction of the HT voltage relative to ground, via transformer inter-winding capacitance and perhaps insulation leakage, and you would never know until it was too late.

    IT does not work in that sort of case without the equivalent of an earthed screen between the primary and secondary.


    The LV earth may well have to be some distance from the HV one, if there are concerns about voltage rise (high HV side PSSC, and poor ground conductivity perhaps)

    Un armoured transfomer tails are a risk if they are vulnerable to strke, but if the route is made very clear, or mechanically well protected, maybe not an immediate concern.


    It is sometimes done that what is in effect an earth fault relay on the LV side is used to operate a breaker on the HV side. Others will be better placed to comment on the detail.


    If adding earth fault protection, until you can measure the leakage in normal use, it is common to start sizing for 0.1% up to about 0.5% of the main current, perhaps  with twiddle options for a factor of 3 either way after commissioning. (which sort of figures with a 30mA RCD on a 30A final circuit,  compared  to  300mA  at the origin of the 100A per phase on a modest farm.)


    How big is the transformer and what sort of vintage ? Funnier things were done in the dark ages.
Reply
  • First a caution - HV distribution is not my thing. But I have had a fair amount to do with gensets, large UPS and so on in the fairly recent past. Take what follows with a pinch of salt, it may contain errors.


    I'd expect at the least an HV  earth electrode for the transformer core and chassis,  though that may well not connect to anything on the secondary side. That is to trip off the HV on a primary winding to core or casing sort of earth fault. (at the other end of the HV line, the effect of a jumbo RCD is done by looking at current transformers and balance, or if the supply is small, or old, then perhaps just expulsion fuses.

     

    I'd also expect some part of the secondary side to be earthed, if not at the transformer then in an adjacent building. If this is not done the secondary voltage may well be the intended 230 or whatever between the wires,  but with both sides floating off at some fraction of the HT voltage relative to ground, via transformer inter-winding capacitance and perhaps insulation leakage, and you would never know until it was too late.

    IT does not work in that sort of case without the equivalent of an earthed screen between the primary and secondary.


    The LV earth may well have to be some distance from the HV one, if there are concerns about voltage rise (high HV side PSSC, and poor ground conductivity perhaps)

    Un armoured transfomer tails are a risk if they are vulnerable to strke, but if the route is made very clear, or mechanically well protected, maybe not an immediate concern.


    It is sometimes done that what is in effect an earth fault relay on the LV side is used to operate a breaker on the HV side. Others will be better placed to comment on the detail.


    If adding earth fault protection, until you can measure the leakage in normal use, it is common to start sizing for 0.1% up to about 0.5% of the main current, perhaps  with twiddle options for a factor of 3 either way after commissioning. (which sort of figures with a 30mA RCD on a 30A final circuit,  compared  to  300mA  at the origin of the 100A per phase on a modest farm.)


    How big is the transformer and what sort of vintage ? Funnier things were done in the dark ages.
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