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French Regulations

tattyinengland
I have a friend who has bought a house in France and would like me to come over and check the electrics. Testing is the same anywhere so I can do that part.....


Does anyone have a copy of the regs for France - in English - that they could possibly share with me? Does an English translation of the French Regs exist?


I have also carried out small works in offices in Berlin, Germany - does an English translation of their regs exist? There's a reasonable hope that I might get to go back there at some point. 


What are the Southern Irish Regs called please (We've done small works and lots of data in an office in Dublin) and is it any different to the northern Irish Regs? Certainly the techniques used in Dublin seem quite different to ours - and more European - than British. Clearly I can buy my own copy of these regs if I needed them as they are already in English, but I'm unlikely to use them - so if anyone could send me a copy I'd appreciate it - but its merely accedemic and out of interest to compare what I saw with regs. I know I posted on this subject before but I did not ask if any one has a copy of the regs and I did not ask about France. 


Kind Regards

Tatty
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    You ideally need a copy of NFC 15-100 norms - it can be downloaded as a PDF, and it contains useful diagrams for typical standard circuit arrangements. My French is pretty poor, Memsahib has better French ,but I did manage to get through it

    There are several Guides available (much like the UK) and a few chaps have published "English" versions - but be aware they get quickly out of date.



    A good one is "L'installation électrique"


    Once you grasp the rules on number of outlets on typical circuits then it's OK. For example, no more than eight lights on a circuit, you must have at least two circuits for lighting regardless of property size, you can have 5 power outlets in 1.5MM2, up to 8 on 2.5mm2, refrigerators need a separate circuit as do most other things. (Dist Bd's are bloody huge).


    I found it useful to have a copy of BS 7671 handy so ypu can look at a French regulation, and map across to BS 7671 (but be wary of UK only regs and French only Regs).


    Zonal concepts in bathrooms are pretty similar


    Legrand, Schneider, and particularly Hagar, publish really useful guides as well - usually available off their websites


    Finally, if a house is going to be sold, you really will need a French registered sparky to "sign off"


    Regards


    OMS
  • 0
    As for the (southern) Irish regs, from what I gather they're currently transitioning from ET 101:2008 to  I.S. 10101:2020.


    I'm pretty sure Northern Ireland uses BS 7671, like the rest of the UK.


       - Andy.
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    I would think you could get a pretty good idea from the IEC sources of BS BS 7671, i.e. IEC 60634 series.  They will have an English version.


    Each country has to adopt the general intent I believe, so these might be good if you cannot get the French 'BS 7671'.  I guess you're not actually certifying the installation, just looking for any compliance issues?
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    Dutch you are an optimist, I think after more than 3 decades of harmonisation, you would be surprised at how different the wiring practices are in different parts of mainland Europe, let alone in the UK. Apart from the use of 230V as the single phase voltage, you will find nearly all combinations of 3 and split phase that can provide that, and varying rules on earthing and rules about local electrodes that reflect the historical wiring that underpins  the LV and HV networks, which are also different

    Then there  are varying rules on separation or combination of lights and power circuits, now many sockets you are supposed to have, if you are allowed unearthed circuits or not if the sockets are 2 pin or it is only lights,  if isolation needs to be double pole or if single pole will do, if it is acceptable to switch neutrals in 2 way lighting circuits.... Then some countries impose demand management, so there are cunning circuits to load shed water heaters or move things to another phase.

    Then in the UK you will encounter flat cables,  fused plugs, reduced diameter CPCs and rings, and a lack of bathroom sockets and a funny rule about metal enclosures for consumer units....
  • 0
    Thanks guys - The French house has been purchased - you wouldn't believe what £30 000 will buy you in rural France!!! Just across the border too from us. 


    I may well get a week ends trip there and back to "have a look" at the state of the electrics, and if I can get some basic parameters to work to work with I may end up doing something.......Just fitting a socket though is very frustrating and the size of DBs in use is staggering. Split phases etc. I'll inspect the place, map out who does what, test the circuits and RCDs and then make a decision on what needs doing. 


    Maybe I can spend the next shutdown in rural france with the familly? I doubt it .......Mostly because that's not in the spirit of the shut down and I'd feel really very bad going to a French hospital to say, listen I have COVID......sheesh......


    I'll probably see what I'm up against when/if I get there. 


    Kind Regards

    Tatty
  • 0
    @mapj.  Good points!  "Optimist" - I think you were being kind.. perhaps I was just being naive on this occasion! 


    I think I have had the authority of the IEC/CENELEC standards overstated to me a few too many times.


    Thanks.
  • 0
    I've not met French domestic installations but the (old) french industrial stuff was wonderful. 

    Unarmoured cabling pulled through straight lengths of conduit and unprotected on the bends.

    Circuit diagrams made up of a book full of A4 sheets containing the termination details of one cable on each sheet and loads of cross references to other sheets.

    It all works but could not be more different to the UK way of doing things.
  • 0
    As OMS has pointed out, the big manufacturers like Legrand, etc. publish quite detailed guides. The pictures may be more use than the words.


    Even a snip at 30k € ought to have come with their version of an EICR. As you may be able to work out from the legislation here it is less detailed than one of ours, but all the basics are covered. I am not sure that testing is required.


    Apart from the obvious matters of shoddy workmanship, the most serious concerns appear to be earthing, RCDs, and supplementary bonding in special locations.
  • 0
    Unarmoured cabling pulled through straight lengths of conduit and unprotected on the bends.

    That does seem to be very common - internally the conduit often seems to be secured with cable ties. I guess the trick is not to think about it as conduit (with missing corners) but as a kind of continuous cable clip that keeps things straight without much effort. For flush work it tends to be singles in flexible insulating conduit rather than sheathed cables.


    The other thing is that the French seem much more careful about keeping "double insulated" standards for insulating enclosures and containment - so you won't often see screw heads in the main wiring area of back boxes (they'll be in a separate chamber or outside the box or covered with plastic caps).


       - Andy.
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    You can see the intent the way they are stacked but as Mike has said, there are differences that could cause serious frustration. AJ is right about things being in transition (see safe electric website for arrangements). Northern Ireland uses 7671. Since The border is only a spit down the road, I need to be up to speed with both

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