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RCD failure causes shock in neighbours house

Large rural home, family members getting shocks from water pipes when water was running. Owner got a severe shock from the outside tap. Their contractor did some investigation and ruled out a fault in the installation. As the system was TNCS it then looked like a classic case of DNO lost neutral so contractor called them in. Investigation revealed a fault in a nearby farm which was on the same single-phase transformer but was TT. They duly cut off the the offending circuit which they established was supplying the barn. They removed a 45A fuse from the distribution circuit and stuck warning tape over the fuse carrier but left the fuse. Problem solved. I was called in by the home owner when the shocks returned. Unfortunately it was late yesterday afternoon and I didn’t relish the prospect. I stuck a bit of reinforcing bar in the garden and measured 187v between that and the outside tap which was connected to a copper supply pipe. I went to the farm and the old farmer kindly gave me access. He had replaced the fuse that the DNO removed as he needed light to feed his animals but forgot to remove it again. Anyway, his own contractor had apparently dismissed the DNO diagnosis. I pulled the fuse and found that the fault voltage at the house disappeared. Further investigation revealed an almost dead short between phase and earth on a circuit in the barn. The RCD had failed. Given that it was a TT system the fault current was insufficient to blow the 45A fuse. The fault voltage in the house, I speculate, was the manifestation of the voltage drop across the DNO earth electrode. 

The situation does reflect an issue in TTing installations on a TNCS system.
Parents
  • Chris Pearson:
    ......


    Well yes, 2 > 1 = multiple, but the reality is that we don't know where those electrodes (if any) are situated. What I don't quite understand is that if the water supply is through a metal pipe, why has it not pulled the surface potential towards the distributor's earth.




    Well it will do, a bit, but presumably the ground there is not so conductive (or the DNO electrodes would also be better connected to terra-firma too. It may also be a plastic water main in the road, and only a few metres of copper underground. In this case bonding the pipes to the neutral at the MET makes plumbing indoors safer, but the outside tap more dangerous.

    Actually when PME first came in there was a recommendation for outside taps to have an insulating break in the pipes, but I think plenty never did and even plenty of new ones still do not. It was mentioned in "PME Regulations", which was a statutory document (a companion to the Electricity Supply Regulations in the UK).  The later Requirements for the Application of Protective Multiple Earthing to Low Voltage Networks  diluted that advice to "An insulating insert may be incorporated in the pipe to an outside water tap."

    Certainly in older versions of Guidance note 5, there is stronger advice,

    "It is recommended, however, that a plastic insert be provided in the pipe to the outside water tap." near the bit about PME and caravans.

    I presume they are reserving judgement that outside taps for anything other than water (oil, propane, milk, beer etc) may come under other rules.


    If each DNO electrode is 30-50 ohms and the water pipe is similar then the PEN to terra-firma resistance will still be some tens of ohms.

    (The Zs and the PEN, being all-copper will be fractions of an ohm, but that is not the loop we are looking at.)


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  • Chris Pearson:
    ......


    Well yes, 2 > 1 = multiple, but the reality is that we don't know where those electrodes (if any) are situated. What I don't quite understand is that if the water supply is through a metal pipe, why has it not pulled the surface potential towards the distributor's earth.




    Well it will do, a bit, but presumably the ground there is not so conductive (or the DNO electrodes would also be better connected to terra-firma too. It may also be a plastic water main in the road, and only a few metres of copper underground. In this case bonding the pipes to the neutral at the MET makes plumbing indoors safer, but the outside tap more dangerous.

    Actually when PME first came in there was a recommendation for outside taps to have an insulating break in the pipes, but I think plenty never did and even plenty of new ones still do not. It was mentioned in "PME Regulations", which was a statutory document (a companion to the Electricity Supply Regulations in the UK).  The later Requirements for the Application of Protective Multiple Earthing to Low Voltage Networks  diluted that advice to "An insulating insert may be incorporated in the pipe to an outside water tap."

    Certainly in older versions of Guidance note 5, there is stronger advice,

    "It is recommended, however, that a plastic insert be provided in the pipe to the outside water tap." near the bit about PME and caravans.

    I presume they are reserving judgement that outside taps for anything other than water (oil, propane, milk, beer etc) may come under other rules.


    If each DNO electrode is 30-50 ohms and the water pipe is similar then the PEN to terra-firma resistance will still be some tens of ohms.

    (The Zs and the PEN, being all-copper will be fractions of an ohm, but that is not the loop we are looking at.)


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