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QUICKY question to resolve a dispute, haha! (a clue would be... a DSO / other near a sink)...

Tomgunn
Hiya, I know everyone's busy so this is a QUICKY!!


How far, (if any), does a DSO / SSO / Sw'd Spur etc... have to be away from a kitchen sink?


Fanks... ?


regards... 


  • 0
    "ensure the sink is not bonded to earth" 

    Too right, thats so "yesterday"! What are those little tags with a 2BA hole in the middle anyway? 


    Regards, UKPNZap
  • 0
    UKPN:

    "ensure the sink is not bonded to earth" 

    Too right, thats so "yesterday"! What are those little tags with a 2BA hole in the middle anyway? 


    Regards, UKPNZap


    If you see a hole, put something in it! ?


  • 0
    "have to be away from a kitchen sink "


    Depends on all circumstances in the situation installed Tomm, not a fixed dimension in the regs (all of guidances are worth considering.)
  • 0
    You are a bit behind the times UKPN, the "bond everything" 15th edition was found to increase danger (particularly in commercial kitchens), as they became conductive environments. Why would you want to bond an otherwise unconnected conductive part anyway, why not bond the saucepans?
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Although it has to be said, that if you have say a commercial kitchen, and you re establish a zone of protection by bonding extraneous conductive parts back to the earth terminal on the kitchen DB (which is local to the kitchen) you will substantially reduce touch voltages  - the basis physics says so.


    That doesn't mean bonding the legs of moveable tables and the like, I agree - but as a principle re establishing that zone of protection is no bad thing


    Regards


    OMS
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Too right, thats so "yesterday"! What are those little tags with a 2BA hole in the middle anyway? 



    Years ago, I understood the BS that sinks were made to, required the provision of said tag................... I haven't checked what BS number it is nor if it is still a requirement,


    Regards


    BOD
  • 0
    perspicacious:
    Too right, thats so "yesterday"! What are those little tags with a 2BA hole in the middle anyway? 


    Years ago, I understood the BS that sinks were made to, required the provision of said tag................... I haven't checked what BS number it is nor if it is still a requirement,


    BOD is spot on!

    BS 1244-2:1988
    12 Earth terminal

    Sinks shall be provided with an effective means of attaching a bonding conductor which shall be accessible to the electrician after the sink has been installed. This conductor shall be either a tag with a bolt size designation of M6, in accordance with BS 4190, (8.3 mm minimum) clearance hole or an M6 bolt or threaded stud. The tag, bolt or stud shall be protected during any enamelling process to ensure that a good electrical contact can be made.


    The requirement (in less detail) goes back at least as far as 1956, but disappeared when the BS was superseded in 2003 by BS EN 13310.


  • 0
     the "bond everything" 15th edition 




    The 15th did not require nor state anything fundamentally different than the 18th.


    The bond everything was a misinterpretation of what it actually said.


    Similar to people reading the list in 411.3.1.2 without correctly reading the sentence above which states "extraneous-c-ps including the following".


     


  • 0
    davezawadi (David Stone):

    I am not a follower of the "I need a rule (guide, advice, magic wand etc)", in this kind of case. These "rules of thumb" are all very well, but as all appliances have a cable longer than 300mm, just what is this number supposed to represent? If it is a kettle, then earth cable failure and then a fault to case is equally dangerous if the socket is 2m away, given accidental contact. Splashing with water is not really very dangerous, you may get corrosion inside the socket pins but not much else. The safest thing in a kitchen is to use plastic plumbing, to ensure the sink is not bonded to Earth, hide all the appliances behind wood doors, and having a non-conductive floor covering. Under these conditions, it is very difficult to get a shock whatever happens, and if everything is RCD protected is unlikely to cause injury even if a shock could be obtained.


    Food for thought! BUT, here I go... getting into trouble, AGAIN!


    BUT, I know we've all heard about 'introducing a potential where a potential may not exist' BUT... if the property has copper  plumbing to the sink then why do we not have any earth bonding there, nowadays? What happened, (like yeah man... I know about 'parallel earthing'), to 'cross bonding' as I did this for decades, hahaha... am I gonna get shot down!!!?? 


    Don't be too hard on me, I'm old!!! ?


    regards...


  • 0
    OlympusMons:

    NHBC agree with the 300mm guidance https://www.procertssoftware.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/NHBC-Electrical-Fittings-Near-Cookers-Sinks-and-Wash-Basins.pdf

    They measure from the basin, so their diagram has a DSO above the draining board.

    They recommend 100mm from a hob, but most manufacturers of gas hobs recommend 50mm from the edge of a hob to a combustible surface, which does seem a bit close to me.


    It's like wall units too... they have to be a certain distance away from a hob and that goes for sockets too re; the heat.


    regards...


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