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Type A rcd . EICR coding ? etc

aligarjon
Hi Guys.   Not been on for a long time, just had a bit of a search and couldn't really find anything so thought i would ask and see what you all thought.


1.  Are we or will we be coding type AC rcd's if there are LED's or induction hobs, lots of electronics  etc  present.

2. How much DC leakage does it actually take to saturate an rcd and cause  problem?

3. How much does a standard LED lamp or induction hob  leak ?

If we test an AC RCD with no load and it's fine then re-test it with all LED lights, induction hobs etc turned on and it operates correctly could we then say that it is ok with a note on EICR  OR EIC if installing any of the above.  


Obviously also on an EICR if the RCD then doesn't operate with it all on it becomes a C2 ?


Any thoughts



Gary
  • 0
    jcm:

    EICR ,how do you know what type of RCD is fitted if not stated , I have one or two spare no markings as to what type they are. Can we give a code for that.


    Now even 13amp socket outlets with one or two USB type A charging points are out of date , you now need sockets with USB charging points Type C . You can buy outlets with one Type C  and one type A, witch covers both charging leads ,but of course more money and bother for customer to change existing ones.

    The whole regulations are getting out of hand.

    jcm

     


    RCDs with no markings would normally be Type AC, and manufactured before RCD Types were introduced in the standards.


    If the RCD is newer than that, then I don't believe it complies with no markings.


    The RCD markings are:



     

    IEC 60417 Symbol

    Type AC

    Type AC

    Type A

    Type A

    Type F

    Type F

    Type B

    Type B (1)
    or
    Type B (2)
    or
     Type B (3)

  • 0
    Advanced Technical Support at Schneider (my emphasis) tell me: "Thank you for your inquiry. The Easy 9 type AC RCD is for AC only and not compatible with DC current."


    I have re-phrased the question. ?
  • 0
    Well that inspires confidence does it not !!

    Mike
  • 0
    I don't think that is quite right Graham because a number of older models use a single thyristor, and provide the motor with half-wave rectified DC.  This is fine for a universal motor, provides speed control, etc, but could give "DC" faults.


    I wonder how many readers have realised that there is an elephant in the forum, that is so far completely unseen, yet gives us much to talk about. It is the bland phrase "Manufacturer's instructions", which I have often criticised. The piece which is missing is a section in BS7671 that specifies exactly that which they may or may not contain and constrains them from modifying installations to suit products. One notices that this is now rife, and apparently without any form of control. How long before a manufacturer decides that his plug in product requires a gizmo in the supply to make it safe, perhaps which he also manufactures, but makes the product supposedly "safer". This has already happened with electric cars. Here we are discussing products, which due to poor design and possible faults, can make the wiring system less safe because they defeat certain additional protection measures! Why should the consumer (particularly rental landlords) have to pay to make them safe again? This is a complete failure of the regulation system and must be resisted and in fact, regulated away. I can see where this is going to end up if we are not careful, and that is that only one appliance must be connected to each final circuit, which must have an AFDD/MCB/RCD combination CPD. 50 final circuits per house, no double sockets, and a price that cannot be afforded by most people.


    Utopia! But just who gains? It will rot reduce electric shocks to zero, fires to zero, or anything else which some may consider necessary or even desirable.
  • 0
    davezawadi (David Stone):

    I don't think that is quite right Graham because a number of older models use a single thyristor, and provide the motor with half-wave rectified DC.  This is fine for a universal motor, provides speed control, etc, but could give "DC" faults.


     


    Hi David, yes, I remember those washing machines that could vary half speed to full speed - early '70's.


    You'd have a job to put those on a circuit with other appliances, supplied by 30 mA RCD, because the noise filters were 10 mA leakage. True story about this type of machine ... the one we had when I was a kid, was connected to a socket-outlet behind the machine. Over time, the earth pin on the plug became corroded due to humidity in the kitchen, so the "leakage" couldn't go anywhere. The way we found out about that, was hearing my Mum scream - she had stripped off late one night and put her clothes in the machine, bent over to pick up something else, and got a nasty belt from behind - due to the large protective conductor current available at the [not very well earthed] machine ... | OUCH !


  • 0
    This is what I asked:

    Thank you. I fear that there has been a misunderstanding. The boiler is powered by the normal 230 V AC domestic supply.

     

    The boiler manufacturer says, "The correct type of RCD must be employed where additional

    protection is required that is suitable for a low energy DC modulating pump according to IET wiring regulations."

     

    I am aware that some type AC RCDs are incompatible with some electronic devices. Is yours compatible with such electronics or not please?


    This is the reply:


    Thank you for the enquiry effectively you are looking for an A Type RCD which features the characteristics of a smooth DC fault current is less than 6 mA, as the standard RCDs we offer in this range as all AC type and dont have this feature,


    However We now offer a 63A Type A Easy9 device if this will suit what you need for your application product part EZ9R46263 - EASY9 RCCB 2P 63A 30MA A TYPE 230V

    d402a46d08acd381aa1dad57e119ac41-original-1a6eed3b-ad51-4e31-b528-f68be82a3182.png


    I still don't know whether the existing type AC RCD would be tripped by this boiler, but I think that it would be wise to change it for a type A. It would be a bore to find that it does when the system is commissioned.
  • 0
    I went to an installation where the Bosch washing machine and another where the Bosch hob were knocking the RCDs out.


    Now you are questioning the RCD requirements for a Worcester Bosch boiler. 


    There's something in common with each of those appliances.
  • 0
    Sparkingchip:

    I went to an installation where the Bosch washing machine and another where the Bosch hob were knocking the RCDs out.


    Now you are questioning the RCD requirements for a Worcester Bosch boiler. 


    There's something in common with each of those appliances. 


    ?


  • 0
    Some salient points made here. The thing which strikes me is that the pyramid of responsibility has been inverted and it is now the guy on the tools who is ending up being responsible for the potential failures resulting from poor product manufacturing design, and the increasingly poor and oft contradictory regulatory drafting across the board.

    My question is - Is this fair? How much further are we going to travel down this line and to what end?

    And more pertinently,especially at a time when there is an acute skills shortage, who in their right mind would wish to train to become an electrician in future?
  • 0
    Sparkingchip:

    I went to an installation where the Bosch washing machine and another where the Bosch hob were knocking the RCDs out.


    Now you are questioning the RCD requirements for a Worcester Bosch boiler. 


    There's something in common with each of those appliances. 


    And it's neither bish nor bash ... ?


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