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Tricky fault finding and rectification job

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
Hello,

I’d be grateful for some advice on a tricky job.

Got an evening call out to a house where the power had gone off, the RCD kept tripping.

Arrived, checked, it was an old-fashioned fuse board with six circuits, two 30 amp rings, upstairs and downstairs, two 5 amp lighting circuits, up and down, a 16-amp combi boiler and a 40-amp shower fuse. The RCD had been installed at some time on the tails between the meter and board to cover the fuses.

As I investigated, I found some problems. I opened up all the ground floor sockets, most of them were OK, wired correctly, LL, NN, EE, but a switch for an outside light had been wired directly from a socket without a fused spur, I disconnected it. I also found a double socket spur that had been wired directly from the cooker control switch; the neutral terminal inside the double socket had melted, so I disconnected that and made it redundant. Also found a double socket that had partly melted at the front, replaced that with a new one.

When I switched the board back on (after safe isolation for the work) the RCD tripped again. It was an old one, so I replaced it, but tripping continued. I eventually pulled out the fuse for the downstairs ring, and everything else worked fine. Customers don’t have a downstairs ring circuit for the moment, they are plugging into a 10-meter long four-socket extension running from a socket on the upstairs ring.

That’s the scenario, now I have four questions:

One, I’m going back on Tuesday (earliest I can get back) to do a split-ring IR test, problem is, I’ve been out of work for months due to the lock down, and the calibration on my Fluke MF tester is a few months out of date, that’s why I didn’t take it first time, will the IR tests I do be fairly reliable?

Two, I’ve noticed that the cooker control switch is working, as there is power on the cooker socket, but there is no fuse in the board for the cooker, what might be going on there?

Three, I did a belling out test with a long extension link to establish how the downstairs ring is interconnected, and I noticed that a leg of old red and black cable in a front room socket is linked to a leg of new brown and blue cable in one of the kitchen sockets, i.e. when I put the croc clip of my test cable onto the copper end of the red live in the front room, and the other croc clip of the test cable onto one probe of my Kewtech hand tester, the tester beeped as soon as I touched the other probe onto the copper end of a brown live in the kitchen. so I’m assuming that the old and new cables are linked by a hidden junction box; that might be causing the problem. How can I locate the box?

Four, if I do narrow the fault down to a leg of the circuit, then how can I repair that leg? I ask because it’s an old house, built in the 1940’s, and if, say, a leg of the ring has damaged cable, how do I replace that without tearing out part of the wall and ceiling, causing inconvenience to the customers?

Thank you if you can help.

Parents
  • For fault finding like this, do not get hung up on the meter calibration unless you are in the habit of really throwing it around or have good reason to suspect it is broken. - almost any meter will do, we are not worrying about a decision based on an insulation resistance of 1.01 megohms pass versus 0.99 megohms fail here.

    To trip a 30mA RCD the fault impedance will be very low, less than 30k (0.03 Megohms). If the meter can tell the difference between the test probes shorted and not shorted (always a good test to do that at the start of session, as it is the test leads & their connections that suffer most damage) it is good enough to go for this one. In terms of the precision needed to find a fault like this, almost any old meter and at a push even a battery and doorbell can  get you quite a long way.


    Sometimes the users can unwittingly provide the clues to speed diagnosis- was there any building work or  DIY in the house recently that might have nailed a hidden cable, or a new squeak from an floorboard that is now working loose, any leaks from plumbing (or animals for that matter) that could have got into a joint under a floor ?

    IF you can lift part of the floor, sometimes a mirror and a torch can be used, rather like a periscope,  to see further along into places you cannot get your head.

    I second the 'divide and conquer' approach, but sometimes to jumper around and isolate the defective section  is worth considering, without actually finding the fault, if it is plastered in or under a tiled floor for example.

    It is possible to remove a section of ring, isolating the ends to create a centre-fed radial,  and reduce the fuse to 15-20A, which is another quick fix. No good if the ring is heavily loaded of course.

Reply
  • For fault finding like this, do not get hung up on the meter calibration unless you are in the habit of really throwing it around or have good reason to suspect it is broken. - almost any meter will do, we are not worrying about a decision based on an insulation resistance of 1.01 megohms pass versus 0.99 megohms fail here.

    To trip a 30mA RCD the fault impedance will be very low, less than 30k (0.03 Megohms). If the meter can tell the difference between the test probes shorted and not shorted (always a good test to do that at the start of session, as it is the test leads & their connections that suffer most damage) it is good enough to go for this one. In terms of the precision needed to find a fault like this, almost any old meter and at a push even a battery and doorbell can  get you quite a long way.


    Sometimes the users can unwittingly provide the clues to speed diagnosis- was there any building work or  DIY in the house recently that might have nailed a hidden cable, or a new squeak from an floorboard that is now working loose, any leaks from plumbing (or animals for that matter) that could have got into a joint under a floor ?

    IF you can lift part of the floor, sometimes a mirror and a torch can be used, rather like a periscope,  to see further along into places you cannot get your head.

    I second the 'divide and conquer' approach, but sometimes to jumper around and isolate the defective section  is worth considering, without actually finding the fault, if it is plastered in or under a tiled floor for example.

    It is possible to remove a section of ring, isolating the ends to create a centre-fed radial,  and reduce the fuse to 15-20A, which is another quick fix. No good if the ring is heavily loaded of course.

Children
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