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Help wanted to read/understand an electrical supply plan from DNO - updated new query

Morgan Phillips
EDIT: I have one further query: WPD say that if they were upgrading the local network they would overlay the current 95mm wcon cable with a 185mm wcon cable, but that this alone would not be sufficient to allow for my property to be connected to the local network. Instead, they said that for me to be connected, a 300mm wcon cable needs to be laid, and they want me to fund the difference between the 185 cable and the 300 cable. 


As they were less than scrupulously transparent in their previous quote, I would like to check if anybody has any thoughts on the veracity of this? Why would upgrading to a 185mm cable not allow sufficient capacity to add my supply?



Original question (already answered):Can anybody assist me in understanding what an existing plan provided by my DNO is showing, and what this means for my request for a new supply please? I've had a very large quote to connect our new house (a passive house) to the network, and am not certain that it is quite right. It appears to be asking us to upgrade the local supply from a 95mm2 cable to a 300mm2 cable, and I am being asked to pay 70% of the cost of that. I was told that if this isn't done, the lights would go out for the rest of the street. I'm not an electrical engineer, so am looking for knowledge with which to go back and discuss the quote. Thanks!



Plan of existing supply.pdf


Plan of proposed new supply.pdf
  • 0
    I suggest you enquire how much a new cable from the sub to your house explicitly (3ph 100A) would cost. It looks to be 50 or 60m and this should cost quite a lot less than the quote. I got a 200A one to a building by WPD a couple of years back and this was across roads and pavements and about 150m, for about that price. This cable seems to run under a field or something where there are already the existing ones, and the trenching etc should be quite cheap. You could also ask if a HV overhead to your property and a pole TX would cost less, it would only be two new poles I think if the incoming HV is aerial which I expect. Does the workshop need 3 phase, for anything much it is well worthwhile as 3 phase machines are much cheaper on the 2nd user market! There are a number of ways available...
  • 0
    OBW


    Well spotted. Us electrical people have been saying for a long time there is not enough generating capacity now, in a very cold winter the grid gets very close to falling over with the current generating capacity. With the old Magnox nuclear stations coming off line at the end of their working lives there will be even less generating capacity. The distribution network is mostly old a creaking now, the cabling to my road is went in in 1930 and failures now from time to time. The government wants us to go all electric heating and electric cars but is deaf to the practicality in doing this. The DNOs are saying if you want this the tax payer is going to have to cough up £1 trillion which realy means £2-£3 trillion of tax payer investment in their private companies.


    If you have not had the slab cast for your new house there is something coming in the next edition of the Wiring Regulations called foundation earthing. To future proof your new house have this installed before you pour the foundations. This will enable you to become a Prosumer. I assume you will be having some PV on the roof? If so you can operate off grid, export spare energy to the grid and only take from the grid when you do not have enough supply. You need this foundation earthing to go to what is called Island Mode.


    I have summoned up the BOD so he should appear soon.
  • 0
    where the cost of upgrading an ageing network should fall.

    Well way back in the mists of time,  that was the original idea of having a standing charge versus the energy charge, but that idea was completely broken when metering and supply were separated. A lot of network is older than  many of us on the forum.(!)

    regards Mike.
  • 0
    John Peckham:

    OBW


    Well spotted. Us electrical people have been saying for a long time there is not enough generating capacity now, in a very cold winter the grid gets very close to falling over with the current generating capacity. With the old Magnox nuclear stations coming off line at the end of their working lives there will be even less generating capacity. The distribution network is mostly old a creaking now, the cabling to my road is went in in 1930 and failures now from time to time. The government wants us to go all electric heating and electric cars but is deaf to the practicality in doing this. The DNOs are saying if you want this the tax payer is going to have to cough up £1 trillion which realy means £2-£3 trillion of tax payer investment in their private companies.


    If you have not had the slab cast for your new house there is something coming in the next edition of the Wiring Regulations called foundation earthing. To future proof your new house have this installed before you pour the foundations. This will enable you to become a Prosumer. I assume you will be having some PV on the roof? If so you can operate off grid, export spare energy to the grid and only take from the grid when you do not have enough supply. You need this foundation earthing to go to what is called Island Mode.


    I have summoned up the BOD so he should appear soon.


    Thank you John! We are due to start the foundations next spring, so I will definitely investigate the new regulations with respect to foundation earthing/Island Mode. Thanks for the heads up on that! And thank you for summoning BOD. I'm keen to hear what he thinks.


    I've just been reading one of WPDs glossy brochures about how they plan to accommodate all of these new LCTs. Lots of lovely pictures, but not a great deal of detail.


  • 0
    davezawadi (David Stone):

    I suggest you enquire how much a new cable from the sub to your house explicitly (3ph 100A) would cost. It looks to be 50 or 60m and this should cost quite a lot less than the quote. I got a 200A one to a building by WPD a couple of years back and this was across roads and pavements and about 150m, for about that price. This cable seems to run under a field or something where there are already the existing ones, and the trenching etc should be quite cheap. You could also ask if a HV overhead to your property and a pole TX would cost less, it would only be two new poles I think if the incoming HV is aerial which I expect. Does the workshop need 3 phase, for anything much it is well worthwhile as 3 phase machines are much cheaper on the 2nd user market! There are a number of ways available...


    Thanks Dave.  The workshop is a bit of a glorified name for my fancy large shed. I harbour an ambition to learn woodworking/carpentry skills at some point in the future, but I don't think I will have any fancy heavy duty tools. We'll probably have a chest freezer out there and some lighting. Maybe a chop saw. Plus a large amount of the kinds of stuff people keep in sheds that provide winter accommodation for mice and spiders ?


  • 0
    You could also ask if a HV overhead

    I don't know about WPD but my local DNO seems to have a policy of undergrounding existing HV and as far as I can tell are refusing to install any new overhead HV at all. Even to the point that new pole transformers are fed from underground HV cables (which looks rather odd to my eyes).

       - Andy.
  • 0
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/654902/Cost_of_Energy_Review.pdf


    It looks as though the Govt commissioned a review of this issue several years ago. Not sure what progress has been made in the meantime. I suspect they've been a bit distracted by Brexit....
  • 0
    BOD's having a nap - BED?


    My knowledge doesn't extend to this sort of work, but I must say that if I were the householder, and if the existing network does not have the capacity, I would be wondering why they couldn't just put in an additional cable from the Tx direct to the plot.


    ETA: just as a matter of interest, the plot's coordinates are showing!
  • 0
    Chris Pearson:

    BOD's having a nap - BED?


    My knowledge doesn't extend to this sort of work, but I must say that if I were the householder, and if the existing network does not have the capacity, I would be wondering why they couldn't just put in an additional cable from the Tx direct to the plot.


    ETA: just as a matter of interest, the plot's coordinates are showing!


    Sorry! I thought I had managed to remove the identifying features!!


  • 0
    coordinates removed ?

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