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Incompetent rental management company/Eicr

UKPN
I appreciate there are lots of Eicr queries going on at the moment but they primarily focus on the "inspector" My topic is something that has arisen today in my family.


My daughter has decided to "let out" her existing property, and will be moving into a new home. She has engaged a rental management agent, who, to cut a long story short has given her a list of required certificates to present. Gas safe, no problem. She phoned me today and said she was required to present an Eicr cert. I said I dont believe you need one, my daughter renovated the house under three years ago and I noted the electrical contractor was a well known, reputable, long established local firm. (NICEIC) so would have and has issued an EIC cert. My daughter says the agent, who is a high end company insisted she and her husband have this done.


So I looked on the Government website and it took just 60 seconds to establish that a new or rewired property with an EIC, issued in the last five years can be used and a copy given to the council and if necessary to a tenant on this new scheme.


Why hasnt the management company tumbled this? If my daughter hadnt rung me she would have had to pay out £100s for an unnecessary form, and looking by the bogus reports cropping up on this forum been exposed to unnecessary work.


I am going to see the EIC on Sunday just in case there are any errors. Unlikely.


People are being taken for fools.


I cant wait to speak to the rental agent. 


Regards UKPN


  • 0
    I think you'll find what you are refering to is in section 6 of the following government advice.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector-guidance-for-landlords-tenants-and-local-authorities/guide-for-landlords-electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector


    Legh
  • 0
    Glad to see you are on the ball UKPN.

    I note the Gov website states a "report" is needed . I think this is misleading in itself.

    i.e. you could have an EIC or an EICR and "IF" they are done correctly would acheive the goal.

    I suppose the Insp & Test part of an EIC could be considered as a "report" on that part of the EIC by some of us though.

  • 0
    The problem is everywhere UKPN. The legislation is very poorly drafted, the forms ill-defined, the understanding by everyone concerned pretty poor. Sense is in very short supply nowadays, doing much about it is very difficult!
  • 0
    So I looked on the Government website and it took just 60 seconds to establish that a new or rewired property with an EIC, issued in the last five years can be used and a copy given to the council and if necessary to a tenant on this new scheme.



    That only applies if the new work [ 100% rewire or whole new build] happened after the start date of the new rental legislation I am afraid. Then every five years an EICR.


    Edit to add:   Get the firm to do an EICR, after all, they would be confident in the compliance of their work? Obviously there will be a fee for this, but also bare in mind, 3 years have past and in the world of electrical installation anything can happen or may not even "happened" as one hoped initially.


  • 0
    My view, FWIW, is that an EIC is valid for 5 years: i.e. initial verification demonstrates that the installation was compliant when it was put into service. If any part of the installation was not covered by the EIC, it will need to be inspected and tested before the tenancy commences.
  • 0
    The actual legislation here is definitely poorly drafted as David S says.  This states that the 'electrical safety standards' must be met - and these are defined as the 18th Edition regs.  The law doesn't say that a 'Satisfactory' EICR is perfectly acceptable, although the guidance does imply this is the case.


    A rigid interpretation of the law would would see a huge surge (no pun intended) in demand for SPDs and AFDDs for example, and indeed a requirement for every rental property to be updated to whatever the latest incarnation of the wiring regulations is every 5 years in order to pass.  That's probably not what they meant, but it's what it says.....


    I have a rental property that was re-wired when re-furbished when I bought it it in 2004 - just before Part P came in.  It hasn't been messed around with at all in that time, but it has a plastic CU (as they were 'safer' then....) noyt under the stairs but in a riser cupboard witha door in the hallway so am I to expect a requirement for a new CU to arise?


    The principle of a regular inspection is fine, but it should be clear that a 'Satisfactory' EICR is indeed that.....


    Best not get started again on vested interests/competence of inspectors
  • 0
    Thanks guys for your input, but I still believe the EIC is valid. I am over Cambridge on Sunday and I will check the form.


                                      "Electrical safety standards in the private rented sector" 


    A "report" usually an EICR report. Obtained by the landlord.


                                 "What about new build properties or new electrical installations"?

    If a property is newly built or has been completely rewired it should have an Electrical Installation Certificate known as an EIC.

    Landlords can provide a copy of the EIC to tenants and if requested the local authority. The landlord will then not be required to carry out further checks or provide a report for 5 years "after the  EIC has been issued", as long as they have complied with their duty or duties under the regulations.


    So, it doesnt have to be an EICR anyway, just a report.


    The "duties" under the regulations are complying with the regs themselves, which I expect will be in order.


    Thanks again. UKPN






  • 0
    jbrameld:

    The actual legislation here is definitely poorly drafted as David S says.  This states that the 'electrical safety standards' must be met - and these are defined as the 18th Edition regs.  The law doesn't say that a 'Satisfactory' EICR is perfectly acceptable, although the guidance does imply this is the case.


    A rigid interpretation of the law would would see a huge surge (no pun intended) in demand for SPDs and AFDDs for example, and indeed a requirement for every rental property to be updated to whatever the latest incarnation of the wiring regulations is every 5 years in order to pass.  That's probably not what they meant, but it's what it says.....


    I have a rental property that was re-wired when re-furbished when I bought it it in 2004 - just before Part P came in.  It hasn't been messed around with at all in that time, but it has a plastic CU (as they were 'safer' then....) noyt under the stairs but in a riser cupboard witha door in the hallway so am I to expect a requirement for a new CU to arise?


    The principle of a regular inspection is fine, but it should be clear that a 'Satisfactory' EICR is indeed that.....


    Best not get started again on vested interests/competence of inspectors


    The law explicitly requires compliance with the 18th edition.


    Until the law is changed, landlords can ignore the 19th edition when it's published.  And also to comply with the law, any rental properties wired to the 19th edition would also have to be backwards compliant with the 18th.


  • 0
    The law explicitly requires compliance with the 18th edition.


    Until the law is changed, landlords can ignore the 19th edition when it's published. And also to comply with the law, any rental properties wired to the 19th edition would also have to be backwards compliant with the 18th.

    Not just any 18th Ed - it specifies the original unamended 2018 version - so no need to wait for the 19th Ed for theoretical problems - we already have it with 18th AMD 1 - and upcoming AMD2.


    I guess most in the industry will just (not unreasonably) assume that compliance with a later edition provides a level of safety at least equivalent to that of earlier editions ... but I can see problems from the other perspective - e.g. money contious landlords objecting to EICRs that show defects according to the latest edition that would have been acceptable to the original 18th (say lack of AFDDs in high fire risk properties if the proposed AMD2 goes though).


       - Andy.
  • 0
    Note that, strictly speaking, although the inspector must be qualified enough to be able to do T&I "in accordance with the electrical safety standards", the inspection itself doesn't need to be. You could hire a qualified electrician to T&I a property as to whether it suitably matches the principles of Fung Shui, and legally you're covered. (There is of course a separate requirement that the property compiles with BS7671:2018 at all times.)

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