Installation of a generator for a house.

Sparkingchip:

If all else fails I have my Mamod steam engine and a bottle of meths.

I have generated electricity from a model steam engine ! by means of a cycle dynamo and a rubber band. It worked a couple of LED torch bulbs.

(Desite the name, cycle "dynamos" are in fact miniature alternators and produce AC) Output was about a watt or two.

Have also observed 20 watts being produced from a large dog running in a wheel, only briefly, cruel to the dog if long continued, but fine BRIEFLY.

A large kid worked as well.

An averagely unfit* person on a stationary cycle managed 100 watts, a racing cyclist managed 500 watts.


*Me.


 

Tomgunn:

I hadn't thought about it, before, but I love the idea of a 'propane' generator

Tomgunn:

PG:

This may be of some use (manual changeover).

I have a 5kW (5.5kW peak) petrol set. It's heavy and takes some handling but a diesel would be twice the weight/cost.

There's a limit to the amount of petrol that you can store on a domestic premis.

A standard set may not be suitable for auto start and changeover because the engine choke is manual.


Regards


164 Connection Diag Final.pdf

Morning, thanks for the info... I'll be looking, as to what would be a reliable generator... is your? 


I hadn't thought about it, before, but I love the idea of a 'propane' generator... I'll do some research on them. Wonder how they start up? Also, how long they can run for??


Many thanks for taking the time to post!!


regards... Tom

 

Sorry Tom, No experience of LPG fuelled sets. I've only used/installed the petrol fuelled, standby option on manual changeover . 

The set is a standard Hyundai HY700LEK, open frame type, Reliable starts and run. Noisy!!!! Very Noisy - but it hardly ever runs. In fact, it's never run in anger (I live in London and haven't had a power outage since I put it in). 

If you wanted a few tips then it would be best to describe how the machine would be used - 

Are you going to be out in the country, supplied from overhead lines? Is the machine for occasional back-up or base load? Is someone dependant on the machine for something like dialysis? What is the access to the generator storage area?

You won't get a meaningful recommendation without this sort of information. You would drift between a manual changeover, open frame, petrol fuelled machine to an auto start/changeover, fully silenced, diesel with pre-heating and a bill of a few thousand more.


Good luck with the move,

PG

 

broadgage:

I would favour a diesel generator over other fuels.

Diesel is much cheaper to run than petrol, and a lot safer to store. The law sets strict limits on petrol storage, but almosy any amount of diesel may be stored.

Propane is only worth considersing if you going to use this fuel for other purposes and keep a large stock.


Automatic start and changeover adds considerable cost and complication. I would favour push button electric start, and a manual change over switch.


I would suggest a continual rating of about 4.5 to 5 Kw for most domestic standby purposes.

This will allow almost unlimited use of lighting, refrigeration, central heating, IT stuff,  entertainments and other low loading items. Allow up to about 1.5 Kw in total for such loads. This will also permit use of JUST ONE heavy loading appliance such as a washing machine, a tumble dryer, a kettle, a portable heater, a table top electric cooker, a power tool, or a vaccuum cleaner. But ONLY ONE such appliance at a time.


I would install two consumer units, one for "mains only" circuits and one for for "mains with changeover to generator" Use red 13 amp sockets on 4 amp circuits for the generator backed circuits. Use these outlets for all or most low loading appliances. The 4 amp MCBs will deter use of heaters and kettles. 1.5mm cable would suffice, but I would use 2.5mm in case you get a larger generator and want to uprate these circuits to 20 amps.

In the kitchan, fit ONE SINGLE red 13 amp socket on a 10 amp MCB, this to permit use of JUST ONE heavy loading appliance. A 10 amp MCB will supply almost any portable appliance that has a 13 amp plug. A bigger MCB than 10 amps will encourage use of "death cubes" and multiple appliances. In case a heavy loading appliance is needed in another room, provide a heavy duty extension lead with a SINGLE outlet.


Connect to the generator backed consumer unit the following.

All lighting.

Central heating.

Any dedicated circuits for fire alarms or intruder alarms.

Anything else useful or important and of low loading.

4 amp power circuits as described above.


Connect to the mains only consumer unit the following.

Electric cooker.

Electric shower.

General purpose (white) 13 amp power sockets on standard ring or radial final circuits.

Anything else of high loading.

Mains into the generator changeover switch.


Install a few self contained emergency lights on the lighting circuits to light the exit routes and also to light the generator and changeover switch. Make certain that these emergency lights are on a circuit supplied by the generator, in order that they will charge when the generator is started and therefore still be nearly fully charged if the generator trips or breaks before the mains supply is restored.

Crikey!! Great food for thought!! I have not heard of "death cubes" before!!"


Good idea on the 2 x CCUs! 


SO, diesel / propane?? I think I may be falling towards diesel.


Need to look into the red SSO's... great idea about emergency lighting!!!


Many thanks for posting this!!


regards... Tom


 

OMS:

Tomgunn:

Hello all,


I'm moving house, (been here for over 42 years'!!), and one of the first items on my mind is installing an electrical generator.

Bloody Hell, Tom - are you sure about this - sounds like you are going full batshit prepper mode 


We are just saying Auf Weidersehen to our continental chums, for a bit - Putin won't be putting the 3rd shock army down the Fulda gap and I think we should be able to keep the lights on (at least long enough to get you vaccinated and take over your brain)


Might I suggest when you move out from the Great Metropolis, you get a decent NBC suit, good respirator and a decent shotgun for close defence applications - what could possible go wrong when you need to leave the bunker for a Waitrose expedition


Stay safe


OMS

Hello young man!!


Gotta be careful... we never know what's coming, haha PLUS, I can't afford to go to Waitrose, have you seen how much their royal steaks cost??


I half expected you to say your usual, (always loved that), "crack on" haha!!


Good luck to everyone / regards Tom


 

broadgage:

A generator is in my view a sensible precaution, especially as the O/P is presumably getting on* a bit.

Consider not just present needs, but possibly future needs.


Whilst the public electricity supply is reasonably reliable, failures do occur and may become more frequent in the future. We are largely reliant on natural gas imported from or via unstable regions. UK natural gas storage capacity has been much reduced in recent years.


I also perceive a small but real risk of terrorists attacking electrical infrastructure, either by conventional gunfire/use of explosives, or via a cyber attack.


Although red diesel is lawful for a generator, I would use white or road diesel fuel, fuel stocks may therefore be used in a diesel car or van to rotate stocks.

Make the equipment as simple to understand and use as possible, in case of illness, a friend, relative or home help without technical knowledge may have to use it.


I would urge A DIY job WITHOUT NOTIFYING ANY STAUATORY AUTHORITIES OF YOUR GENERATOR. If some future emergency occurs, do you really want to be on a database of "houses with generators, suitable for emergency billeting of refugees" or "generators that can be looted"


*No insult is intended in this statement, but "but being in the same place for 42 years" does imply an age of at least 60.

Hahahaha!! I'm 45 yoa!! 


Well, I'm thinking 'Noah's Ark'... AMAZING forethought, not to tell the authorities as I don't want any council man knocking on my door!!


Our electrical supply runs close to red, during the winter, and I'd just like the peace of mind that I have that covered as to what's going on with Brexit / etc! 


So, if anyone... Hastings way, needs a cuppa when the lights go out... you'll find my house as it'll be the only one with lights on, haha!


Cheers, no offence taken! 


regards Tom