Installation of a generator for a house.

Is this just for an odd power cut or are you hoping to go 'off grid'

I presume it is rather remote as in most places it is not worth it.

If you just want to keep the lights on and perhaps freezer and  a heating pump, you only need a few kW. If you are cooking and heating with gas that is fine, if however that sort of thing is electrical you may wish for more.


Automatic transfer switches exist, examples - there are some very cheap ones  example  of doubtful reliability .

You probably need to rewire into 2 consumer units - mains only circuits, and  the other for circuits supplied via the transfer of  mains with genset backup.

If you will be on hand, manual change over is more reliable, and cheaper  this sort of thing


Self starting gensets can be a pain - the starter batteries need to be kept on trickle, and stored fuel goes waxy over time, and tanks are a possible target for theft.

Above a few kW consider diesel better than petrol or propane.

Bur first decide what you really need it for, and how long it needs to run.

M.

Hello mapj1


WOW! Amazing reply! Great info / links... thanks very much for taking the time to post this!!


What I would be looking for is in case of electrical power outages... and just run the bare minimum, within the house. 


Interesting about using propane, hadn't thought of that!


It'll be a bit of fun... running through my options, regarding the switch gear!!! I do miss doing industrial electrical works, it was very satisfying!


So, sort out the switch gear and now to find a reliable generator, (I like the propane idea and as you say, liquids spoil after a while and I could have several bottles of these).


I wonder if anyone, on here, would recommend a propane generator??? It would be better to have one 'recommended' than scour the internet and end up with a dud. I would like to buy one that could run for quite a while, (as we don't know how long any power shortage would be), and sort of as quiet as possible... maybe I'm over thinking this?


Well, thanks, again!!!! Could be having a bit of fun, soon, haha!!


regards... Tom

This may be of some use (manual changeover).

I have a 5kW (5.5kW peak) petrol set. It's heavy and takes some handling but a diesel would be twice the weight/cost.

There's a limit to the amount of petrol that you can store on a domestic premis.

A standard set may not be suitable for auto start and changeover because the engine choke is manual.


Regards


164 Connection Diag Final.pdf

I would favour a diesel generator over other fuels.

Diesel is much cheaper to run than petrol, and a lot safer to store. The law sets strict limits on petrol storage, but almosy any amount of diesel may be stored.

Propane is only worth considersing if you going to use this fuel for other purposes and keep a large stock.


Automatic start and changeover adds considerable cost and complication. I would favour push button electric start, and a manual change over switch.


I would suggest a continual rating of about 4.5 to 5 Kw for most domestic standby purposes.

This will allow almost unlimited use of lighting, refrigeration, central heating, IT stuff,  entertainments and other low loading items. Allow up to about 1.5 Kw in total for such loads. This will also permit use of JUST ONE heavy loading appliance such as a washing machine, a tumble dryer, a kettle, a portable heater, a table top electric cooker, a power tool, or a vaccuum cleaner. But ONLY ONE such appliance at a time.


I would install two consumer units, one for "mains only" circuits and one for for "mains with changeover to generator" Use red 13 amp sockets on 4 amp circuits for the generator backed circuits. Use these outlets for all or most low loading appliances. The 4 amp MCBs will deter use of heaters and kettles. 1.5mm cable would suffice, but I would use 2.5mm in case you get a larger generator and want to uprate these circuits to 20 amps.

In the kitchan, fit ONE SINGLE red 13 amp socket on a 10 amp MCB, this to permit use of JUST ONE heavy loading appliance. A 10 amp MCB will supply almost any portable appliance that has a 13 amp plug. A bigger MCB than 10 amps will encourage use of "death cubes" and multiple appliances. In case a heavy loading appliance is needed in another room, provide a heavy duty extension lead with a SINGLE outlet.


Connect to the generator backed consumer unit the following.

All lighting.

Central heating.

Any dedicated circuits for fire alarms or intruder alarms.

Anything else useful or important and of low loading.

4 amp power circuits as described above.


Connect to the mains only consumer unit the following.

Electric cooker.

Electric shower.

General purpose (white) 13 amp power sockets on standard ring or radial final circuits.

Anything else of high loading.

Mains into the generator changeover switch.


Install a few self contained emergency lights on the lighting circuits to light the exit routes and also to light the generator and changeover switch. Make certain that these emergency lights are on a circuit supplied by the generator, in order that they will charge when the generator is started and therefore still be nearly fully charged if the generator trips or breaks before the mains supply is restored.

I would agree with avoiding petrol. I have had problems with it going stale within a matter of months in old cars. The ethanol content doesn't help.

A generator is in my view a sensible precaution, especially as the O/P is presumably getting on* a bit.

Consider not just present needs, but possibly future needs.


Whilst the public electricity supply is reasonably reliable, failures do occur and may become more frequent in the future. We are largely reliant on natural gas imported from or via unstable regions. UK natural gas storage capacity has been much reduced in recent years.


I also perceive a small but real risk of terrorists attacking electrical infrastructure, either by conventional gunfire/use of explosives, or via a cyber attack.


Although red diesel is lawful for a generator, I would use white or road diesel fuel, fuel stocks may therefore be used in a diesel car or van to rotate stocks.

Make the equipment as simple to understand and use as possible, in case of illness, a friend, relative or home help without technical knowledge may have to use it.


I would urge A DIY job WITHOUT NOTIFYING ANY STAUATORY AUTHORITIES OF YOUR GENERATOR. If some future emergency occurs, do you really want to be on a database of "houses with generators, suitable for emergency billeting of refugees" or "generators that can be looted"


*No insult is intended in this statement, but "but being in the same place for 42 years" does imply an age of at least 60.

It is a strange phenomenon but larger diesel generators are much cheaper than their smaller brothers. A 20-40kVA set may sound very large, but if you have the space you should get a perfectly serviceable one in a silent container etc. for a few £k. It will be very reliable, and if you are lucky an F.W.Wilson one with full mains C/O fitted could cost less than some smaller thing which will only run for a few hours before needing more fuel. If you have something bigger the cooker and electic heaters are easy to use too. I used to have a 40kVA one which used about 70p in fuel (red diesel) an hour on light load, in fact not much more than mains power when fully loaded either. The tank inside was 300 litres, enough for a week on light load (continuous running). Propane engines are petrol ones with a different carburettor fitted and a gas evaporator to use the liquid gas. The snags are ignition as usual and certainly more expensive to run than diesel, unless you have a bulk tank available for your CH, in which case probably similar. Not many available second hand though, so expensive to buy. A big unit will prevent theft too, which is common with small generators.


Broadgage, you always use red if you can, it is much cheaper. Diesel fuel does not "go off" like petrol, although if very cold (-15C or lower) can go a bit waxy, Either additive or a heater in the tank easily keeps everything fine.

A propane genset is just like a petrol set with a modified carburettor.No choke is needed as the fuel is a gas even when cold, autostart  is quite easy.

As others note it is easier to store than petrol, and significantly less economic than diesel. Mind you I fully expect red diesel to be phased out in the next few years or so, as part of the push to green if you like it or not. (  I do not see 'generators' on this list) so then the price point will tip.


Conversion kits are available for the brave, (logas or nash come to mine) or you can buy a "dual fuel"  machine up front.

If autostarting, a solenoid gas valve and some interlocking and sequencing is needed. I suspect there are all sorts of regs for this sort of thing that one has to comply with that the DIY ones maybe won't. There are also methane kits sold in the US but  I imagine you cannot get anyone of conscience to connect one to the UK gas supply, it seems hard enough to find one person with the right paperwork to inspect a boiler a gas fire and  a cooker in one visit.

regards

Mike