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Multi Zone Heating System with PC Win-7 Control

AncientMariner
I think that I may have been here before, but I am trying to source a multi-zone heating control system suitable for a village hall.


There are 3 heating zones - gas fired wet system, No Hot Water control required as separate.  Motorised valves for each zone. Existing control is via three domestic programmers which are in a small cabinet and get poked and fiddled with on an almost daily basis.  This results in gas being consumed overnight or Sundays when no one is there and worse. The boiler consumes about 60 kWh of gas in the first 30 minutes.  So far this month 3.7 MWh of gas used. Worst day being 2nd Dec - 587 kWh when it was on 24/7 from the afternoon before.


My preference would be control from the Manager's Win-7 pc which is located in a normally locked office.


So far, two systems have been suggested. One a purpose built system with remote access as well for circa £4.5K /£5K installed. The alternative being as off the shelf Siemens system which can only be controlled by either an Android or Apple phone. This would be circa £1,500/£2K installed.


In both cases wi-fi would be used as well as remote access via internet. The hall has BT Business Internet with wi-fi, plus 2 Ubiquiti UniFi Access Points.


So, are there any Android emulators which would be up to this. The thoughts of 3 zones on a weekly calendar may be a bit fiddly, but without seeing the controlling APP, does start to take me out of my comfort zone.  (I do not want to be the only person who can program it etc to the point where I have too much ownership...)

Thanks.

Clive


  • 0
    A basic Android tablet doesn't cost much to buy, compared with the rest of the system.  And it wouldn't rely on an obsolete computer in the manager's office.
  • 0
    At the risk of muddying the water, I know of a number of scout halls that solve this differently - there is a button the user pushes to get an hour of heat in that room. Just before it goes off it beeps, If no-one is there to push it again, or they are warm enough and do not care,  it goes off and stays off until pushed again

    As unlike a house no-one will sleep there (well not without a sleping bag anyway) and at least one of the occupants must be able bodied, it works with youngsters and adults alike.System pays for itself very quickly in reduced fuel bills



    Mike.
  • 0
    Windows 7 is now out of support, so that's not a good place to be starting from a security perspective if you plan to make it available from the internet.


    Have you looked at something like the Honeywell EvoHome system? I use it in my house, at it allows up to 12 zones to be controlled using zone values and temperature sensors. Daily schedules can be configured, as well as "off" (frost protection only), "holiday" (use same as Saturday) and "away" (set everything to a defined temperature). There is a cloud based remote access feature that can be accessed via a iOS / Android app or using a web browser on a PC.


    Cost is something like £175 (ex vat) for the base unit (WiFi interface, zone control) and a boiler relay. Underfloor controller is about another £300, zone valves are about £50.


    More information at https://getconnected.honeywellhome.com/en/evohome
  • 0
    This is a nice little Rasberry-pi project for you Clive, costing a couple of hundred quid! I suggest a system as follows:


    You need to add relay GPIO outputs sufficient to control all the valves and the boiler. Throw away the home controls.

    You need to run a real-time clock, a cheap GPS module will give you a perfectly accurate one.

    You need temperature sensors for zones, not thermostats which people will fiddle with, use the analogue inputs and a few semiconductor sensors in convenient boxes.

    Then a little simple software will get it all running, which can be improved with a booking database and pretty user interface for the manager.

    You can add Mikes buttons as well, for use when someone arrives and the booking is not made.


    No problem, job done, a nice little task to do over Christmas!


    All of the other bought systems will cost much more than you have been quoted to produce something half as good, you can do all the bells and whistles you like, proportional temperature control, frost stat, Wireless control via wi-fi etc with a couple of add on modules and a bit more software (almost all of which already exists).

  • 0
    A tablet will give you tons of trouble to interface, that is why a pi is probably the best choice. It uses Linux, but has tons of software available in source form to help you, unlike Android.
  • 0
    Thanks for the replies.  I will have to do some reading up on the options.

    Simon - Just looked at the price of an Android Tablet, looks promising…

    Mike - I had thought of timers, one push gives an hour and then give another push an hour later say. Problem there is that the heating is using large diameter pipes, those in the cellar actually caulked rather than threaded. And therefore takes an age to warm up to the set point. So was looking for some onboard intelligence to take into account room and outside temperatures.

    Keylevel - Yes Win 7 is out of support, which does give a boost to the Android Tablet. I will have a look at the link. I fitted a Honeywell programmable thermostat in our conservatory about 16 years ago. It lacked intuitive operation, and where was the instruction book when I wanted it.  Luckily the three zone valves are already there. Motor Open, Motor Close type.

    David - Raspberry-Pi sounds interesting, but I would end up with me having responsibility for maintenance etc.* I was phoned one night by someone who could not unlock the door. They were turning the key the wrong way! (It’s a funny lock with an internal fire escape type push bar) I had my telephone number taken of the notice on the door the next day!

    I've never played with a Raspberry-Pi, but remember some years ago when I was asked if I could put together a dosing and mixing system. It's a while back, the software to program the PLC came on a 5.25 inch floppy!

    * I learnt the hard way with a chapel CH programmer (domestic type) which failed, as did the new replacement and the replacement for that. I was convinced that the fact that the pump - another large bore system - was a bit toooo much for the contacts - it was a large induction motor mounted atop of the pump. Turned out to be a loose connection in the cut-out. Found by flickering lights when I was not there of course!

    You mentioned booking database. The higher cost option I have been quoted for, did include such.

    One essential item is a thermostat mounted on the wall. It does not need to be connected, but lets the village hall users think that they have control… (One is already there!)


    Cheers!

    Clive




  • 0
    The Honeywell system allows local thermostats to be used to override the current setpoint for the zone, with it automatically switching back at the next programmed switch time. I can set the kids rooms so they can turn the heat up and have it drop back to a more sensible setting every 30 minutes (if I decide to be that mean) ?
  • 0
    Well Keylevel, can it use existing (Large bore presumably) motorised valves? Otherwise Clive will need a lot of plumbing at megapounds cost, no one wants to go near this kind of system for very good reasons. That system is fine for a new install, but retrofit could be very difficult. The other important point is that these systems have a very long time constant, control delay if you like. A lot of heat is stored in the pipes due to the water volume there so turning off the boiler, or even changing a valve doesn't stop or start the heating for a considerable period. Software which took this into account would be a good idea.
  • 0
    I don't know if it can control large bore valves, but it does have self adapting optimum start and optimum stop.

    I used to design the control software for a company that would take on places like this and upgrade them to improve energy efficiency, but that was a long time ago and they are long gone. Those systems definitely weren't cheap - they were subsidised by an arm of Shell (I think) who recovered the installation costs by taking a percentage of the energy savings.
  • 0
    I don't see why it shouldn't control larger valves such as this one (data sheet). Surely, it only needs to know when the valve is open or closed.

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