Caravan hook up

Sparkingchip:

From my front window I can see a motor home plugged into an extension lead running from within a house, it’s connected to a PME supply, via a Type AC 30 mA RCD in the consumer unit. I know that because I fitted the consumer unit around ten years ago ...

Well that's all right then. ?

gkenyon:

However, I can confirm that it doesn't matter how quickly technology moves on in this particular instance. Unless and until the relevant legislation - Electricity Safety, Quality and Continuity Regulations - is revised, BS 7671 (and any provisions or guidance from ENA or DNO's) will never allow the connection of a caravan outlet to the earthing terminal in premises supplied from PME, quite simply because Regulation 9(4) does not permit an electricity distributor to connect a PME earthing terminal to a caravan or boat.

I am going to be a little mischievous and ask what penalty a consumer might face when he plugs in his caravan, be it in the driveway or elsewhere.


I feel sure that para. 4 of R. 9 forbids a distributor from installing a PME supply into a static caravan where it may be reasonable to install a service head, etc.; as opposed to a touring caravan, which by its very nature needs to be able to unplug.


R. 35 makes a distributor who has failed to comply with ESQCR 2002 liable for a fine of up to level 5, which nowadays means unlimited; but a consumer's liabilities are limited. R. 34 allows the Secretary of State to require that "any part of a consumer’s installation which is not enclosed in a building ... [which] is or is liable to become ... a source of danger to others ... shall not be used; or shall be made dead; or shall be removed ...". So when Mr Sharma goes canvassing in his constituency, what will he do about all the caravans that he finds "hooked up" to a socket on the wall?

Sparkingchip:

gkenyon:.

In truth, caravans should not be plugged in at homes with PME earthing arrangements.

From my front window I can see a motor home plugged into an extension lead running from within a house, it’s connected to a PME supply, via a Type AC 30 mA RCD in the consumer unit. I know that because I fitted the consumer unit around ten years ago, long before the neighbours bought the motor home.


A socket is a socket, what’s the issue? Why would a caravan or motor home user question plugging it into any electric socket?

I agree they wouldn't ... but it's still the DNO's responsibility, under Regulation 9(4) of ESQCR, to ensure this doesn't happen ... and not a "so far as reasonably practicable" legal requirement either:

(4) The distributor shall not connect his combined neutral and protective conductor to any metalwork in a caravan or boat.

Sparkingchip:

Then throw into the mix that whilst camping I have seen motor homes and caravans with two leads supplying them from two 16 amp site supplies at the same time.


One of my first thoughts when I saw one such arrangement using two pillars on separate pitches was that there is an assumption they are on the same phase, that’s assuming that the motor home users even realise that different pitches may be on different phases when they are running out the extended second extension lead, heaven only knows how the leads are connected internally within the motor home.. ?

If internally each inlet goes to its own CU, is there a problem if the outlets are on different phases?

gkenyon:.

In truth, caravans should not be plugged in at homes with PME earthing arrangements.

From my front window I can see a motor home plugged into an extension lead running from within a house, it’s connected to a PME supply, via a Type AC 30 mA RCD in the consumer unit. I know that because I fitted the consumer unit around ten years ago, long before the neighbours bought the motor home.


A socket is a socket, what’s the issue? Why would a caravan or motor home user question plugging it into any electric socket?

Gino:

Spot on you must be a caravan er. Lol. Appoligies I cannot wait till April 1st to post this. This is what's happening actually. But my initial post was really trying to work out the reg wordings. As I want to make my caravan at home safe. So I was thinking of fitting a hook up box next to my outdoor electricity box where the incomer is and the earth bar for all of home. And knowing that the wire would be inside and no more than 18inches long with no or very little chance of damage plus the benifit that it's also connected to the main earth point where gas /water are all connected. I would have not been asking my apparently DIY questions if I was actually running a swa cable underground and Installing a post at my home. As I know it would have to have an earth rod. The posts from everyone has been really intresting and I have been busy looking into new tech, OK the bs7671 is slower and tech is moving fast. But from what I can see and read the new pen loss systems have been accepted within the rules as they are being rolled out. I have one independant unit that has ct clamps within the unit that monitor pe/l/n and if a pe is missed it cuts off all lines and within the regs. 

It's interesting that, depending on the arrangement of metal pipework around your home, installing an independent earth electrode for the caravan pitch may not achieve an improvement in safety.


However, I can confirm that it doesn't matter how quickly technology moves on in this particular instance. Unless and until the relevant legislation - Electricity Safety, Quality and Continuity Regulations - is revised, BS 7671 (and any provisions or guidance from ENA or DNO's) will never allow the connection of a caravan outlet to the earthing terminal in premises supplied from PME, quite simply because Regulation 9(4) does not permit an electricity distributor to connect a PME earthing terminal to a caravan or boat.


In truth, caravans should not be plugged in at homes with PME earthing arrangements.

Chris Pearson:

gkenyon:

So, what will the "qualified electrician" actually do when asked if they can install a caravan outlet at a dwelling? Well, they'd probably advise two options, or, given the response they've had previously, just say "I can't do that, but I can install an outdoor socket-outlet for you if you like".

And take care to describe it as an "outdoor socket-outlet" in the MEIWC.

Also has the advantage that it can be used by the home owner for the Mode 2 Charging Lead supplied with electric vehicles ?


Oh Dear !