The IET is carrying out some important updates between 17-30 April and all of our websites will be view only. For more information, read this Announcement

This discussion is locked.
You cannot post a reply to this discussion. If you have a question start a new discussion

DISTRIBUTOR CANNOT BE TRUSTED...

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
Hi folks!


This is my first forum post and hopefully and interesting topic. I am looking for some advice on where to start!

Background:
  1. 4th floor apartment tear-out in the city of Baku, Azerbaijan in a very old Soviet-era building block with unknown amounts of modifications.

  • 4 wire system (3-phase and neutral) entering and distributed throughout the building (no armoured cable / no separate earth).

  • No enforced local regulations as the general wiring in the city is a free-for-all (I am told it should be to PUE 6 standard). I could share many examples but this is not the aim of this post!

  • No building plans available from the council / no wiring / single-line diagrams available for the building or from the distributor.

  • No option available for a reliable survey - Partly being that most of the local electricians think that an earth core is a waste of money!

  • Basically the local distributor cannot be relied upon as can be seen by the photo example of the electrical panel closest to the apartment from the local government electrical company...

  • I am an electrical engineer wanting to get my hands dirty with my own project compliant to the BS 7671 wiring regs. I will design the domestic electrical installation and will have it verified by an (UK) electrician / expat before proceeding and sourcing materials.

Aim:


  1. Brand new domestic apartment electrical installation to BS 7671 18th Edition in which is in my control (full rewire, new consumer unit etc.). BS exceed the local regulations.

  • Keep politics / what-should-be for the incoming panel out of the discussion, it is what it is and there is not much I can do except wait decades for regulations and enforcements to catch up!

  • Provide the safest solution to protect my family without running away from the building / country.

Closest Panel to my Apartment:

  • Ok lets cut to the chase - this may just be the worst panel that you have ever seen however I cannot modify it as it is owned by the local government electrical company. It gets no points for compliance to any regulation (maybe 1 for being metal only!). I unfortunately has to live with this monstrosity until the building is knocked down in the future (and this is one of the newer / better panels in the building believe it or not…1 of 3 panels up to the apartment).

34853545ae5c04645e1bb134ec9267e3-img_1749.pdf


Queries:

  1. Can I assume that the incoming supply is a TN-C-S (and I know this is the distributors responsibility…) i.e. connect the MET and neutral together before the consumer panel? I know we should never assume so what is the best way to test? I am trying to source a Megger. My concern is that this could bypass some protection elsewhere in the building although it appears to have only overcurrent protection (fuses).

  • Should I have a dedicated earth run from the incoming of the building (from the neutral bar) up to the apartment consumer unit instead? My concern is that there my be a potential difference between the neutral and the earth at the apartment which could require 2P RCBOs throughout. Yes there should not be a potential difference however there is a lot of twisted wiring (junction boxes are a luxury…) and poor looking connections as well as all the apartment neutrals connected together in the block.

  • A third option would be to have an earth pit installed in the car park and run the dedicated earth to the MET in the apartment although 2P RCBOs may still be required.



Any assistance is greatly appreciated including verification / testing methods before I dive into the design of the consumer unit. Thank you in advance,


Chris
Parents
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Thanks Andy! I’ve seen your name pop up all over this forum.


    Ok so to give a bit more information - I have lived in Azerbaijan for 5 years now and my experience of living in multiple non-earthed domestic apartments has not been great from being shocked from faulty unearthed underfloor electric heating when coming out of the shower (traced back to a ’spare’ breaker), live walls and bathroom metalwork after a water leak, unearthed AC units and horrendous electric fields coming off of computer equipment when working from home (shown on my TriField TF2 meter - I am big on EMF).


    With regards to unearthed sockets, unfortunately they are used all over some local apartments (Type C even in wet areas and no RCD protection in the apartment I am in now, fitted out around 10 years ago...), I am even considering bonding my laptop to the radiator to avoid all-day electric field exposure as there is no earth any of the Type C sockets - this is another topic so let's avoid that discussion! With regards to socket types, I have had multiple Europlugs breaking and live pins sticking out the socket so really want to avoid these especially with a baby in the house. Also want to avoid non-earthed sockets for above reasons.


    I am actually considering using BS 1363 13A plugs and sockets throughout the apartment although I will need to avoid the 32 A ring circuits as the distributors breaker is also 32 A. I would need to change these out if we ever sold the apartment though.


    Interesting point about the TN-C "to the socket”. Unfortunately this is not common practice in this location at least nowadays i.e. my previous rented accommodation in a brand new apartment block which had 2C+E cable installed throughout, simply had the earth core cut back making it too short to install at the sockets (even in wet areas!) otherwise the electric field exposure would not have been such of an issue.


    Also interesting about the pipework - I was considering having an isolation flange installed on the water and gas pipes which need to be renewed anyway, if these became an issue… I actually get a nice zap when touching different pipework in the attic…definitely an interesting project!


    Regards,


    Chris
Reply
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Thanks Andy! I’ve seen your name pop up all over this forum.


    Ok so to give a bit more information - I have lived in Azerbaijan for 5 years now and my experience of living in multiple non-earthed domestic apartments has not been great from being shocked from faulty unearthed underfloor electric heating when coming out of the shower (traced back to a ’spare’ breaker), live walls and bathroom metalwork after a water leak, unearthed AC units and horrendous electric fields coming off of computer equipment when working from home (shown on my TriField TF2 meter - I am big on EMF).


    With regards to unearthed sockets, unfortunately they are used all over some local apartments (Type C even in wet areas and no RCD protection in the apartment I am in now, fitted out around 10 years ago...), I am even considering bonding my laptop to the radiator to avoid all-day electric field exposure as there is no earth any of the Type C sockets - this is another topic so let's avoid that discussion! With regards to socket types, I have had multiple Europlugs breaking and live pins sticking out the socket so really want to avoid these especially with a baby in the house. Also want to avoid non-earthed sockets for above reasons.


    I am actually considering using BS 1363 13A plugs and sockets throughout the apartment although I will need to avoid the 32 A ring circuits as the distributors breaker is also 32 A. I would need to change these out if we ever sold the apartment though.


    Interesting point about the TN-C "to the socket”. Unfortunately this is not common practice in this location at least nowadays i.e. my previous rented accommodation in a brand new apartment block which had 2C+E cable installed throughout, simply had the earth core cut back making it too short to install at the sockets (even in wet areas!) otherwise the electric field exposure would not have been such of an issue.


    Also interesting about the pipework - I was considering having an isolation flange installed on the water and gas pipes which need to be renewed anyway, if these became an issue… I actually get a nice zap when touching different pipework in the attic…definitely an interesting project!


    Regards,


    Chris
Children
No Data