In all the examples you give it is repair or replace, not fresh installation. so there is no building regs/ part P to worry about. If however a brand new circuit was being run for a brand new shower, then it may be.


So no paperwork to local authority, and no need to belong to a trade body to notify it either.

However, the work still needs to be done properly, and here folk will start to argue about qualifications versus experience. And what level of the each makes someone a proper electrician.


"Watch  one do one teach one" monkey learning may be good enough for Medican Sans Frontier vaccination programmes, but for home wiring in the developed world is is probably not quite enough. !!


As a minimum there should be some understanding of ohms law, cable ratings ( and de-rating when in lagging or places where cooling is poor), so that the fitness of what is being connected to can be judged, and a meter of some kind just to test continuity of the earthing. But re-using the original cable after a quick look and feel to be sure it is not melted or otherways damaged and a quick buzz to see that the earth gets to the end, is going to be OK 99% of the time, and even if it does not work, it is not likely to be dangerous.

Other rules that get missed are things like not boxing in junction boxes and recognising unsuitable cable routes.

There should always be some sort of audit trail - if not a formal certificate, then 'replace heating pumps, and confirm existing cable and earthing arrangement satisfactory on date XXX' on the bill.

A certificate makes it much clearer what you  did, and may help with arguments like  the fact the lawnmower has stopped working the day after you moved a hand basin is nothing to do with you... that sort of customer.


Really  what is most needed is a keen awareness of personal confidence and limits, and how to make things safe and who to call when that limit is reached. But some installations once opened up are going to reveal a can of worms (*) that needs more knowledge. There will be cases where the pipes are live, or the cable is really damaged or the shower is not actually on an RCD or something, and for those occasions having advice and skilled hands on speed dial is very useful.


Mike

There will be conflicting opinions, so wait for other responses.

(* other more ah, shall we say colourful expressions may be used if the situation warrants it.)

There are two overlapping concepts here: compliance with BS 7671 ("the electrical regs") and compliance with part P of the building regs. The former aren't statutory although some statutes require or encourage compliance; part P is statutory.


For work to comply with BS 7671, it has to do all the things covered by its 500 pages of rules; one of those rules being to issue an electrical installation certificate or minor works cert as appropriate. Where there isn't a statutory requirement to follow BS 7671, a cert therefore doesn't have to be issued - think of a DIYer adding an extra socket. However, for a paid professional doing electrical work, not issuing a cert is very poor form. There is also the issue of understanding the things required in the certificate. For example, Zdb: if the person doing the work hasn't got equipment suitable for measuring Zdb and/or doesn't understand what Zdb is or what implications it has for safety, then maybe they shouldn't be doing safety-related work?


Note also that anyone can fill out a certificate; the only condition is that they have to sign at the bottom declaring they are competent to have done the work - which could later land them in hot water if this declaration was patently false.


Then there are situations where BS 7671 is required. The two main ones are: rented accommodation: the landlord has to ensure that the installation complies with  BS 7671 at all times while it has a tenant. The other is notifiable works under Part P of the building regs - this is basically anything involving a new circuit or CU, or anywhere reachable / touchable by a person in a bath or shower. Where it is notifiable, the Local Authority will want either the work carried out by a member of self-certification scheme; certified by an approved 3rd party verifier (you pay the verifier), or checked by the LA themselves (you pay the LA and they send out someone, probably an electrician). The LA will want the work done to BS 7671 and will want a copy of the cert.

Thank you for an interesting question. It brings to mind the strict trade demarcations which were so damaging to industry in the sixties.


I would happily have done any of those at home before I had any electrical training, but that is not the same as doing it for trade. If there is any possibility of doubt, take photographs before you disturb anything.


Immersion heater: why go so far as replacing the flex if it appears to be sound? If a tradesman, EAWR 1989 apply, so you have to be clear about safe isolation when you open up the FCU. A diligent electrician would check Zs and RCD function on completion. However, that should have been verified when the circuit was installed and unless there are obvious signs of damage, it may be assumed that the rest of the circuit is sound. Turning the question on its head, are we clear that an electrician could remove an immersion heater safely, especially with a non-vented system?


Shower: pretty much the same considerations apply.


Cylinder stat: very easy. Just ensure that the wires go to the same terminals as previously. Functional test only on completion.


Zone valve: rather more complex. They usually come with a multicore flex attached and you need to know your way around an S-plan (or other) junction box.


If in trade, make sure that your insurance covers the proposed work.

thank you all for the replies. im a qualified plumber (city and guilds / competent person scheme for plumbing) and currently undergoing acs training. The overlap of plumbing and electrics is common and I find the whole area such a grey area.  I have done some electrical training as part of my plumbing training but nobody can ever give me a clear answer on what we as plumbers can and can't do electrically.  The general approach of most people I have worked with and who have trained me is that we can wire into a fsu and also everthing down stream of that we can work on.  so wire centres, immersion etc are fair game. But  I am trying to find a definitive answer. It's extremely important to me to do things right.  It seems to be arguable when minor works certs are needed and to what they apply to. I know some eletricians who say one is needed for changing a broken light switch. If everytime I work on a central heating system electrical component such as a cylinder stat or zone valve or (once gas safe a boiler) I need an electrician too with me then thats okay i will do it right. Another example being a broken shower pump that is already on its own fsu. To replace like for like would take about 30 mins if correct water isolators are in place and then do I need an electrician to connect the 3 wires to fsu...is minor works needed? If it is I have to say there are alot, if not all plumbers who are not doing it by the book.

Well you can print out a minor works certificate from here  and have a look.

There is no formal qualification needed to fill one out, but do you know what all the words are and what to do to fill it out ?

If yes you are competent to issue it, equally you may have certificates galore but if you do not know how to check the earthing or what cable sizes should be, you should not be doing so

(and there do seem to be some out there with 'Electrician' on the van whose certificates are more than a bit doubtful).


As Harry Enfield nearly said, 'plumbers, know your limits' ..


Mike



(another sketch about folk trying things they maybe need more training for..)

"The LA will want the work done to BS 7671 and will want a copy of the cert."

What the LA want and what the law (Part P) says are two very different things.


Do the job to Brazilian Standards (If you think Brazil is a civilised country!).

Is that prohibited?

Covguy, you crack on and try not to be so perfectionist.


Next thing is that they won't let decorators unscrew light switches and sockets, etc.

Thank you all for the replies. There is a G3 requirement for unvented hotwater, this also covers vented now too...its called hot water safety systems. I have this ticket.


chris I agree..always a perfectionist..to my detriment sometimes lol seeing some of the work other do