Off grid for 20K

This depends rather on why it is so expensive - is it up some wind swept hill side or in a shady valley. How much power will be needed, how much land is available for installing generation kit etc ?

What sort of off grid - how will the place be heated ? There may need to be space reserved for be oil or propane tanks already. (and or augmented by solar, wind, batteries you name it, none of whoch is small and cheap)

Power for lights is one thing, power to heat water and people quite another.

I suspect if the desire is for a high power conventional lifestyle, including electric shower and cooking, let alone electric space heating, then the answer will be no, go for the DNO supply.

Might be worth seeing if any of the works is contestable, to push down on price, even if it is only trenches and post holes.

Mike.

Indeed Mike! One of the reasons that prompted me to ask the question was to highlight the superb service that the grid provides. Yet there are some who deride it as some kind of expensive, polluting monster that should be kept at bay wherever possible. 

We are continually told that providing our own energy via solar etc is a desirable route for the individual customer but the logical conclusion to a 100% uptake of that would be to push up the cost of grid electricity if the need for it was only of a supplementary nature.

It is certainly possible to go off grid for £20 K but only if your customer is willing to be economical in electricity use and to use some other fuel for space heating, water heating and cooking.


10 Kw of PV----------------------------£10,000

24 volt battery, 2,000 AH------------£5,000

charge controllers and inverter------£5,000.


Back of fag packet estimate only. Not including labour.

Lighting and refrigeration would be best worked at battery voltage, with an inverter for most other loads.

A 10Kw nominal system should on average produce about 8 to 10 KWH a day in UK mid winter conditions, and as much as 60 KWH a day in mid summer.

That would supply reasonably efficient lighting, refrigeration, and small appliances. And LIMITED electric cooking such as an induction hob a microwave oven, a toaster, and MAYBE an electric oven.

The charge controller should divert any surplus into water heating. For much of the year this should heat all the water, but some other fuel would be needed in winter.

To get the best results from such a system life style adjustments would be needed.

Bright sunny day =do two loads of washing. Dull cloudy day=leave the washing for a bit.

Bright sunny day=roast beef for lunch. Dull cloudy day=microwaved meat pie for lunch.


It might be worth spending more than £20,000 on going off grid if considering the absence of future electricity bills.

A wind turbine is worth considering if the site is windy. A reasonably sized wind turbine will power electric heating in windy weather.


A diesel generator might be worth considering for larger loads, but the plan should be to minimise use of same due to fuel consumption and noise.

Or just alter your life style to suit the available energy. Candles. Gas bottles for camping stove cooking and thick jumpers in the cold weather. Perhaps an open fire, or an oil boiler. People in the distant past had animals living in their homes to create warmth. I have images of the T.V. comedy series with simple living, "The Good Life." Margo reminds me of my ex mother in law. Felicity Kendal is still with us.


Edit. Add  Tinkers Bubble an Off-Grid community in Somerset, England. (naturalhomes.org)


Z.

24 volt battery, 2,000 AH------------£5,000


How many times can this 48 kWh battery be filled and emptied over its lifetime?


If a generous 250 times, cost per kWh is 41.7p................


Regards


BOD

A lot depends on if fossil fuels are going to be used onsite.

Well according to this morning's Times, the grid is going to struggle to cope next winter so going off-grid might be a good idea for more and more of us.

The Govt are procuring another 2.4GW of standby diesel generation for next year because many of the companies whose contracts are, or have already expired are not renewing. The customer of course, is going to have to pick up the tab for the shortfall due to all this green nonsense.


How much is a nice big 15KW diesel generator, some red diesel, some solar panels and a windmill going to set me back?

I reckon the time is coming for many whereby requests will be made to the DNOs by customers to pull the fuse and forget the notion of sending any more bills.

Time to buy some shares in red diesel.

If that is the thinking, then you'd better buy the red diesel for your generators now, while it is still available - with a few large exceptions the reduced duty rate is going in early 2022, so you will be running your home on something taxed like DERV instead.


(red will remain for the time being permitted in agriculture, forestry, horticulture, fish farming, railways and to power non-commercial heating systems such as in homes, narrowboats and places of worship.


NOT in building site vehicles, private generators, commercial heat and power plant and so on .

At the same time the reduced levy on biofuels will also be phased out, as at the moment there are some silly schemes that are not really good for the planet.)


I can see a change in duty from circa 11p litre to more like 60p is going to alter the economics of certain operations quite significantly, especially at the same time for end users, coupled with the change from 5% to 20% VAT as well.


regards

Mike.

Not just lead acid.

There will be more to be learnt about getting the best out of various lithium cells as well - like not charging them to 100% if you do not need to.

I note that Tesla and others have the depth of cycle and the charge cut-off voltages programmable, and offer an 8 year warranty ( reference) mainly by only filling to ~ 80% and avoiding deep discharge.

It may be that in a few years time there is a market in 2nd hand vehicle battery packs with life left in them,


Mike.