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The EICR and competence. What are we going to do about the endless problems brought to the forum?

David Stone
Your answers Gentlemen, please. This is indicating a serious problem in the Industry. Trust is now zero. I am disgusted with the behavior of these alleged "inspectors" who are dim, dumb, deaf and blind, and cannot read the BBB. It is not good enough is it?
  • 0
    Quite.


    The minimum standards for electrical installations in rented homes should be written down so everyone knows what is deemed acceptable, allowing them to determine what is unacceptable.

     

    “If you fail to plan, you are planning to fail!”




    Benjamin Franklin
  • 0
    Whilst we are at it, a question for people who do not appreciate checklists, isn’t the Schedule of Inspections a checklist?
  • 0
    wallywombat:

    The thing is, even you have a fully-trained, competent and experienced inspector, who can use their skill to, for example, determine that a shower is not RCD protected but is otherwise soundly installed, you still have a problem. Obviously this doesn't comply with the current regs, but how should it be coded? It has basic and fault protection. This is very subjective, and there is currently no right answer. So different inspectors could reasonably come to different codings for the same installation. So you either need informal guidelines like NAPIT codebreakers, or statutory minimums.


    Could NAPIT codebreakers actually be the cause of some bad coding. C2 for cables less than 50mm in prescribed zones not protected by an RCD basically renders all pre 17th installations as unsatisfactory? 


  • 0
    How do you prevent someone from knocking a nail into the wall to hang a picture in a rented home?


    Are any pre 17th Edition electrical installations in rented homes satisfactory?


    What is the benchmark?


    Do lighting circuits needs a circuit protective conductor?
  • 0
    Sparkingchip:

    How do you prevent someone from knocking a nail into the wall to hang a picture in a rented home?


    Are any pre 17th Edition electrical installations in rented homes satisfactory?


    What is the benchmark?


    Do lighting circuits needs a circuit protective conductor?


    Depends if you go NAPIT or NICEIC, both say different. 


  • 0
    What does the actual legislation covering landlords EICRs say?


    NAPIT and the NICEIC do not set the standards or get to say what the requirements are, they can only offer guidance to inspectors.


    What is the legal requirement?
  • 0

    2. What do the Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020 require?



    Landlords of privately rented accommodation must:




    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector-guidance-for-landlords-tenants-and-local-authorities/guide-for-landlords-electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector
  • 0
    The actual regulations (as opposed to the government guidance) impose 3 main requirements on landlords.

    1) At all times while rented, the installation must comply with BS 7671:2018. There is (legally) no allowance for newer, nor older but safe installations: you are not allowed to use the newer EV measures added by amendment 1 for example. If a tenant without the landlord's approval or knowledge makes a modification not in compliance with the regs (e.g. replaces a light fitting with a new class I and fails to earth it) the landlord is liable.

    2) Get it I&Ted every 5 years or so by a competent person. This doesn't have to be an EICR, nor does the inspection need to compare it to BS 7671 (to any edition), nor does it need to check for safety.

    3) If however the report identifies anything specifically not compliant with BS 7671:2018, it must be fixed within 28 days of the inspection (not from the date of issuing of the report).


    I believe the government guidance implies older stuff can be ok, but that's not the law.


    So the regulations say absolutely nothing useful about what sort of report should be done, or what standard is should be done to. Which is partly why we're in the current mess.
  • 0
    wallywombat:

    The thing is, even you have a fully-trained, competent and experienced inspector, who can use their skill to, for example, determine that a shower is not RCD protected but is otherwise soundly installed, you still have a problem. Obviously this doesn't comply with the current regs, but how should it be coded? It has basic and fault protection. This is very subjective, and there is currently no right answer. So different inspectors could reasonably come to different codings for the same installation. So you either need informal guidelines like NAPIT codebreakers, or statutory minimums.


    And, how many of us take a shower cover off to check earthing and tightness of the terminals. Many electric shower units have no exposed conductive parts, and the water outlet fitting is made of nylon so a loop test can not be undertaken easily.


    Z.



     


  • 0
    Sparkingchip:

    Quite.


    The minimum standards for electrical installations in rented homes should be written down so everyone knows what is deemed acceptable, allowing them to determine what is unacceptable.

     

    “If you fail to plan, you are planning to fail!”




    Benjamin Franklin 


    My mate drinks with im down the Nags Head. So it woz im wot scrawled that on the bog wall just under "if you are reading this then you are...................."


    z.


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