The EICR and competence. What are we going to do about the endless problems brought to the forum?

The comparison with the MOT is interesting. When it started, it was a list of basic safety measurements and inspections. Now it has suffered the extreme feature creep of all bureaucratic systems put in place by Brussels, and it checks that the paint has not faded and the number plates are in the "right" fount! A slight exaggeration perhaps but honestly, the fount of the number plates? The reason given is that the "cameras must be able to read them", but this is palpable nonsense, my computer easily reads handwritten stuff, almost as well as I can and much more quickly. MOTs are used in the same way as EICRs, to get work. My partner's car had an advisory last year, "brake pipes slightly corroded". When examined I found so little problem it was very difficult to identify, the real inspection revealed the pipe in question was covered in tarry stuff and some dirt. It made her afraid to drive the car because failure was imminent! At one time cars used to rust pretty badly, and rust was a major cause of MOT problems. Now that technical improvement (and pressure on manufacturers to make cars last longer) has resulted in better paint, wax coating the inside of hollow sections galvanized material in some places, Aluminum to reduce weight, this has largely gone away. Strangely brake pipes are still made of plain steel, plastic-coated sometimes. If they are important for safety then why not copper alloy ones? Even retail the cost of enough new pipe in copper is a few pounds, in bulk it would be less, so why not mandate it for new cars, problem is gone for good? Manufacturers are quite happy to spend loads of money on gadgets, but basic safety, oh no!


We see the same with some electrical stuff, my favourite hate is poor quality plastic back boxes which split on sight. Some are so bad the knockouts need very careful drilling and sawing to make the hole, or the whole thing cracks, particularly when screwed to a typical not quite flat wall. Some makes are much better than others, but using the same material with glass filling  (you wouldn't know without a section and microscope) would add a tiny material cost (2p perhaps) to an item which costs up to £2.00 anyway. In an EICR broken boxes are a common fault, but it is easily fixed at negligible cost at source.


My discussion on Eddy-currents with BOD demonstrates that the rules need to be sensible for an EICR. Exact compliance with BS7671 (including items that cannot be a problem in a domestic) without any room for maneuver is just like the MOT, a pointless box-ticking exercise, used by some to tout for work. It has become too difficult for many electricians to understand, as we know from the 2391 "dumbing down" procedure. However, we now have Laws that incorporate a faulty and over-complex rule-following inspection as a simple safety inspection. The justification is far from clear unless it is to protect one set of vested interests (electricians "clubs") from another isolated group (private Landlords). Does that sound like the MOT too?


Car steering and brakes are the most important, followed by major suspension defects and tyres. Our test, exposed conductors, lack of basic Earthing, followed by broken accessories allowing access, loose connections (we don't actually find these at present at all), obvious heat damage. Amazingly similar really (having once had a fail because the wash bottle became empty during the test and the tester could only get one squirt!)

" Incompetence or fraud?"


A mix of both methinks.


Add that with the mentality that "it complied a few editions ago therefore it is deemed OK" - still a maybe or maybe not in my book when compared with where we are nowadays. Still a judgement call I`ll admit, course it is but is it "safe - ish" , yes if we did allow it not that long ago but now we don`t might make us think a bit about how really unsfe it makes it in our opinion and that might be influenced a bit by "how long ago" but it is not the only consideration either. We are talking relative safety not absolute safety so we got add a touch of uncommon sense too.

Comparing electricians doing EICRs to mechanics doing MOTs is like comparing apples with oranges.


The strict rules applied to MOTs leaves little chance of fraud or errors.


Some years ago I went to drop my van off for a service and MOT before seven o’clock In the morning and there were two guys from the DOT sat in a car on an adjacent car park watching the garage to see when they started the first MOT of the day, to ensure the weren’t running through checks on vehicles prior to logging onto the DOT online system get a head start, the number of MOTs that each garage can do is strictly monitored and controlled.


Strict rules apply to the testing and now the test equipment is all going to have to be connected the the DOT system to directly input the test results.


MOT testers are working on a completely different level.

https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/what-connected-mot-equipment-means-for-you/


So the garage could service my van in the service bay, but could not enter the MOT bay to be worked on until the correct time, as the DOT had it under surveillance.

Landlords EICRs could easily be reported and recorded as Energy Performance Certificates are with an online register through which individual reports can be accessed.

I am waiting to see how they cope with electric 4WD cars. Whilst electric cars still have mechanical brakes, these are only part of the braking system, the electrodynamic regenerative brakes are unlikely to work at low speed even on a 4WD roller set. Either the car will need loads of special software to be tested, or the results will not be real scenario data. All those old Crypton brake testers will need to be replaced too, another nightmare on the way.


In Northern Ireland, all the MOTs are done by the Government (an agency) using largely automatic testing with a few bits of inspection. This takes a bit less than 20 minutes altogether and costs less than in England. The quality of the test is probably good, and obviously no repair fraud. There was a "software" problem at one stage, which is slightly interesting, a certain kind of lorry (which I owned) had incorrect data for the brake tester (much more sophisticated than the English one), which thought my truck had disk brakes on the back, which it didn't. It failed twice for dynamic brake balance, so I took it to the main dealer. Using the same manufacturer's tester it passed with flying colours (Maha, make, the same as the MOT station!). I took it again, fail. The dealer then changed everything, very expensive, so that it was essentially a completely new brake system. His test, new, MOT fail. As you can imagine there was a fair bit of communication behind the scenes, and the dealer took it to another MOT station 40 miles distant. Pass as perfect as it could be. I complained of course, for £2K of work which was completely unnecessary, and paying for 5 tests. They really couldn't have cared, said it was due to a "software error", and refunded 4 test fees. Never ever trust the Government and software, they don't know what it is!


We automate some of the EICR, the meter tests, the rest is inspection. Which do I find most in error when some are checked out, the meter tests!

Another nightmare Andy. Online, during the test there is no model, every one is different. Imagine how much tapping would be required, even the present BS7671 forms are far from ideal, and connecting the meter to the computer, and doing the correct test, and if a fault is found, and what is the correct reading. Just don't go there!

I know full well there are electricians doing EICRs on copy pads bought from a wholesaler as they do not use anything more hi-tech than a ball point pen,

The gas certificates can be hand written,  but can only be issued by a registered competent person.

Here, Switzerland, the electrical safety checks are a legal requirement and are carried out by a group of govenment registered inspectors. The intervals vary depending on the type of installation. The MOT equivalent is also carried out at govenment testing stations.


For those who like to practice their German (Mike ? ) here is the document.

SiNa_und_M_P_und_Messanleitungen_2018_DE.xlsx